Royal Purple Oil Experience - 2005 Mustang GT

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OK my "panties" aren't in a twist because I'm wrong or right, but because you always make a debate out things that aren't even the main point at hand. Seems your panties are in a twist by keeping this going with more irrelvent stuffso I'll respond.

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Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
mechanicx said:
Whatever dude, you always pull this cr ap and pull up some obscure [censored] that's not really relevant to the main point at hand. I might have said every but I wasn't even talking about foreign manufacures. I also said most V engines. American V8s are two-plane crank and so I explained my point of why that GM and chrysler number the cylinders appropiately. [censored]. I know you are in love with Ford but still.


1. Don't get your panties in a twist because you were wrong. And the digression about firing orders and the clarification took place back on page 7. It also ended on page 7. It was you who drug it back up just to tell everyone Ford was "wrong" in their cylinder numbering sequence on Page 11. So who's the one making irrelevant points?


The irreleveant point wasn't me commenting on that side topic that you were engaged in yourself, but that you made such a big issue that I casually said "every" other manufacture uses a different numbering system, when I meant chrysler and GM. My pont was that these American V8's are two-plane crankshaft designs.

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2. I call you on something when its [censored]. In this instance, it was [censored]. Trying to justify GM's choice of cylinder numbering via crank plane choice, then saying Ford's choice was "wrong" because it didn't align with GM's.... That's just retarded.


I'm wrong about what? that these engines are two-plane crank V8's? Or the word "every" and I didn't classify that to mean most every Domestic? You are being more petty than a woman.

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3. You did say "every". And you in no way specified that you were excluding the Germans or any other manufacturer outside of the North American market. I cited three readily verifiable examples of manufacturers that use the same numbering scheme as Ford. When you post something as an absolute, be prepared to back it up with some facts. Otherwise, don't be surprised when somebody calls you on it. I've had my [censored] handed to me in the past for doing the same thing, so I am far from immune.


Hey look I don't mind being corerected or wrong at least if the person is sensible about pointing it out. You are taking every word little word someone types on a forum too literal and if you looked at the context the discussion was about Ford, Chrysler and Chevy V8's. You take some unimportant trivial thing like the word "every" to start a petty argument. You've done this several times in the past. And it's the way you do it, with your smack talk that makes it worse.


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4. You said most "V" engines. Perhaps you should have been SPECIFIC and stated "V engines from Chrysler or GM" because that's really what you meant apparently. Otherwise, you are again stating bunk, since the Germans, like Ford, number their V6's in the same manner.


I was replying to Mopar's post about american V8's. This is you just being petty to start an argument anytime some makes a point you don't agree with. So you attack them tangentially to the main point.

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5. I'm not "in love" with Ford. But I'm also not the one who seems to feel the need to come up with a snooty response because the "absolute" statement that was presented as fact ended up being anything but.


No sir, you were the one thaty got snooty first. I feel I was only replying in kind And you do start an argument any time someone says they favor GM's design to Ford's.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
OK my "panties" aren't in a twist because I'm wrong or right, but because you always make a debate out things that aren't even the main point at hand. Seems your panties are in a twist by keeping this going with more irrelvent stuffso I'll respond.


1. No I don't. We were having a civil discussion about firing orders and cylinder number which had reached conclusion on page 8. YOU drug it back up on page 11 with your statement that I then replied to.

2. I wasn't keeping this going, YOU were. And you continue to do so with this reply.

Originally Posted By: mechanicx

The irreleveant point wasn't me commenting on that side topic that you were engaged in yourself, but that you made such a big issue that I casually said "every" other manufacture uses a different numbering system, when I meant chrysler and GM. My pont was that these American V8's are two-plane crankshaft designs.


It wasn't a big issue. We were having a civil conversation that had met resolve. Hence the reason it didn't continue on page 8, or 9, or 10.... Only on page 11 when you brought it back up.

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I'm wrong about what? that these engines are two-plane crank V8's? Or the word "every" and I didn't classify that to mean most every Domestic? You are being more petty than a woman.


You were wrong in your "every" statement. Come on, you can't be that naive. You know EXACTLY what I meant. I'm hardly being petty. You are the one who seems to refuse to let this go after obviously making a false statement.

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Hey look I don't mind being corerected or wrong at least if the person is sensible about pointing it out.


1. Yes you do, or we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. I'm sure I don't like being wrong any more than you do, otherwise, I wouldn't be replying to you.

2. I was being sensible. I posted three immediate examples of engines with the same cylinder numbering sequence as Ford from three separate manufacturers. The conversation could have and SHOULD have ended there. But it didn't.

Quote:
You are taking every word little word someone types on a forum too literal and if you looked at the context the discussion was about Ford, Chrysler and Chevy V8's. You take some unimportant trivial thing like the word "every" to start a petty argument. You've done this several times in the past. And it's the way you do it, with your smack talk that makes it worse.


Smack talk? You intentionally come in and make statements like these because you KNOW I will read them and respond. Why are you pretending to be surprised when it happened in this thread?

You are the one continuing the digression from the main topic. The cylinder numbering discussion had ended on page 8. You drug it back up and intentionally stepped on that nerve because you KNEW I would read your response and take issue with it.


Quote:

I was replying to Mopar's post about american V8's. This is you just being petty to start an argument anytime some makes a point you don't agree with. So you attack them tangentially to the main point.


The discussion between 440Magnum and myself was an agreement about a statement somebody else had made. I could say the same thing about this post and you being petty about continuing an argument about something that wasn't even an argument until you made it one on page 11.

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No sir, you were the one thaty got snooty first. I feel I was only replying in kind And you do start an argument any time someone says they favor GM's design to Ford's.


How did I get "snooty" first? I stated Ford has been using that sequence since 1932. There was no attitude in that post, it was a genuine question. I took your "every other manufacturer" statement as the beginning of the "snootiness". And it just snowballed from there.

BTW, I was ribbing you with my subsequent post because of the absurdity of the "every other manufacturer" statement. Hence my "maybe you've got it backwards" line at the end of the post.

Obviously you did NOT take it in jest though, since you then made your ultra-snooty "whatever dude" post.

18.gif
Now, we can continue to beat this dead horse if you like, or you can take my ribbing you on your posting FUBAR in good humour and we can let this thread continue. The choice is yours.
 
Just to show you how ridiculous this gotcha game you're playing is , you said this:

Originally Posted By: =OVERK1LL
Which is the same as the GM firing order too LOL!

1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 is the Ford HO firing order, and the same cylinder firing order for the LSx engines and I believe ALL newer V8's IIRC. Something about having a "standardized" firing order for OBD2?


Then you posted this. Notice not all of those manufactures use the same 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order despite using Ford's cylinder numbering.


Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: mechanicx

I explained why it's "wrong" and why every other manufacture numbers their V8s (and most other V-engines) the other way because it's not a flat plane crank. I don't know about 1932 model T V8 but maybe it had a flat crank anyway.


EVERY other manufacturer eh? Perhaps you should have done some research before making such a statement.

So BMW is "wrong" too?

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And Mercedes?

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And Porsche?

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Maybe you've got it backwards. Perhaps it is GM and Dodge who are WRONG.


We can debate whether you meant certain years or models, you qualified your statement or whatever, but the point is if someone wanted to play the gotcha game on here, they could do that all day. I don't know if what you posted above is completely accurate, but I don't go back and research the reference material to play gotcha with everything someone posts on here either.

Edit: I see you already came with a comeback reply above this. I read to page 7 or 8 and saw the side topic i thought was interesting and commented to Magnum440 or whatever, and excuse me if there were 2 pages more of post's ahead of it. I guess it's my bad that I wasn't on here reading that post to reply 2 days ago when it was new. Point is, you created the argument not me.
 
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Notice I used the term I BELIEVE meaning I was NOT sure and did NOT state it as fact. I even ended it with a question mark in regards to OBD2.

I also never claimed it was Ford's numbering. It may be of German original. Actually, it probably IS of German origin and Ford simply used it. Mercedes Benz and BMW are both older companies than Ford.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
Does anyone else think we nitpick too much? That is the lesson I am leanring.

Yeah lol true. It just gets frustrating when someone tries to discredit everything you posted over some trivial matter in the post. It's not funny when someone does that. There's a right way and a wrong way to correct something or to diagaree. I'm done here. Sorry about the thread hijack.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Notice I used the term I BELIEVE meaning I was NOT sure and did NOT state it as fact. I even ended it with a question mark in regards to OBD2.

I also never claimed it was Ford's numbering. It may be of German original. Actually, it probably IS of German origin and Ford simply used it. Mercedes Benz and BMW are both older companies than Ford.


But are their V engines and V8's older than the American..?
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx


Edit: I see you already came with a comeback reply above this. I read to page 7 or 8 and saw the side topic i thought was interesting and commented to Magnum440 or whatever, and excuse me if there were 2 pages more of post's ahead of it. I guess it's my bad that I wasn't on here reading that post to reply 2 days ago when it was new. Point is, you created the argument not me.


Perhaps that's the issue here. I felt YOU were making the argument with your post, since you drug the topic back up. Prior to that, it was just a discussion, not an argument. And the discussion had sort of reached resolve and ended.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Notice I used the term I BELIEVE meaning I was NOT sure and did NOT state it as fact. I even ended it with a question mark in regards to OBD2.

I also never claimed it was Ford's numbering. It may be of German original. Actually, it probably IS of German origin and Ford simply used it. Mercedes Benz and BMW are both older companies than Ford.


But are their V engines and V8's older than the American..?


Good question, I don't know! Perhaps Doug would? He seems to know a lot about older stuff.

Wikipedia cites the origin of the V8 as french. But that's Wikipedia so I'd take that with a grain of salt..... Though the article seems pretty complete.

Interestingly enough, Rolls Royce numbered (numbers?) their V12 engines with bank letters and the same numbers down each side! So you had bank A and B, with 1 through 6 down each side!
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: 2k05gt

Correction
The Royal Purple was changed at 5-6,000 mile intervals.
The Mobil 1 was changed at 4-5,000 mile intervals.


Sorry, I was going by the 3,000 miles you put in your original post. Was that just the number of miles on the car?


I Bought the Car in Sunrise Florida, drove around florida for a bit then drove it back Home to Virginia,
I changes the Oil at about 3000 miles with RP and used it ever since. I try to change the oil ever 5000 so the Odometer will read 60,000 I know it's time to change, then 65,000 change again then at 70,000 it's easy to remember that way.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Regarding the cams, did each engine see the same kind of driving (warmups, time at redline, etc.)?

How frequently was each one driven?

Marc's has a Manual 5 speed so he will hit his revv limiter, I have an Auto and is set to shift below redline. We both do not warm up the car before driving, we both have simular driving manors and spend the same amount of time at the track.

He commuts the same distance as I do, 60 miles a day, his is mostly highway mine is 50/50.
I never drove mine in the winter, I have a 2000 Silverado Z71 for that. Marc has a Harley Bike he rides in good weather.
 
If he spends more time at high RPMs than you do, especially without much warmup time, I'm not at all surprised if his cams look different from yours.
wink.gif
 
Assuming the oil is hot before revving it, why would the red-line rpm cause more cam wear? I don't see where the load on the cams is any different, whereas the pistons are really taking a beating...
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Load per revolution on the cams is no different. There are just more revolutions.



Someone will chime in and latch on to that citing (something like) inertia and/or whatnot. I surely don't know anything one way or the other, but my spider sense intuition tells me that nothing this dynamic has a one dimensional truth to it.
 
Fair point, well made. Guess I went too far trying to keep it simple.

The point is, a different number of revs per mile should definitely have an impact here UNLESS the load on the cams is somehow decreasing with RPMs. But I can't see that happening unless there is valve float, and I can't imagine that would be happening at the stock redline...
 
The cam with RP has 73k miles whereas the M1 cam has 30k miles. My guess would be that since the two cars are driven in a similar fashion that the higher mileage cam experienced many many more revolutions.
 
But they weren't driven in a similar fashion. The OP said the M1 cam saw redline a lot more.
 
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