Rotella T 10W-30, 5003 mi, '96 Buick RMWagon 5.7l
- Thread starter WishIhadatruck
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Originally Posted By: FZ1
M1 filter is cheaper and performs at least as well as your current filter.
Perhaps, I'm not convinced it wouldn't work just as well to go back to using Wix.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I think the uoas are gonna be the uoas whether you pay for them are not.
What? I don't follow.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
That's what 2nd gear is for. best of luck.
I was in 2nd some of the time as well but not very often. There is just too much of a difference between the gears. The 2.93 rear end just isn't ideal, but certainly better than the 2.56 rear end that was standard in those cars.
M1 filter is cheaper and performs at least as well as your current filter.
Perhaps, I'm not convinced it wouldn't work just as well to go back to using Wix.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I think the uoas are gonna be the uoas whether you pay for them are not.
What? I don't follow.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
That's what 2nd gear is for. best of luck.
I was in 2nd some of the time as well but not very often. There is just too much of a difference between the gears. The 2.93 rear end just isn't ideal, but certainly better than the 2.56 rear end that was standard in those cars.
See bt anchors posts on oil filters. The m1 is a very good filter for $11. You have a sense of what the motor is doing,so,you don't have to pay to look at the numbers each time,do you? I understand it is boring/tedious to run in 1st or 2nd for an hour of climbing but it's the same as running a lower rear end ratio........... and it's not permanent.
I hear you. Had this UOA been good I would not have bothered with one for a while for sure.
As far as running in 1st or 2nd I would have to run much slower since the higher rpms aren't much fun to listen to. Up most of those hills I was running 55-58 in 3rd which is about 2500 rpms with the torque convertor unlocked. It is tolerable to run 50mph in 2nd at 3000 rpms but with 3 young kids in the back I'd prefer to run faster if you know what I mean. I do run in 2nd if it won't maintain speed in 3rd but that is rare. On anything close to level ground I run 62mph which is just over 2100 rpms in 3rd with the TC locked, it will unlock the TC on most any hill and jump up to 25-2600 rpms.
I'll try premium gas, running slower if necessary, etc. I just wish there was an easy way to see while running whether I'm getting detonation or not so I know when to run slower or do something else different.
As far as running in 1st or 2nd I would have to run much slower since the higher rpms aren't much fun to listen to. Up most of those hills I was running 55-58 in 3rd which is about 2500 rpms with the torque convertor unlocked. It is tolerable to run 50mph in 2nd at 3000 rpms but with 3 young kids in the back I'd prefer to run faster if you know what I mean. I do run in 2nd if it won't maintain speed in 3rd but that is rare. On anything close to level ground I run 62mph which is just over 2100 rpms in 3rd with the TC locked, it will unlock the TC on most any hill and jump up to 25-2600 rpms.
I'll try premium gas, running slower if necessary, etc. I just wish there was an easy way to see while running whether I'm getting detonation or not so I know when to run slower or do something else different.
I finally found bt anchors post on his M1 versus EaO comparison using particle counts. Pretty interesting. It was suggested to me to use the EaO and change them every other OCI and that filter was suggested because it wouldn't load up and go into bypass.
I actually find it easier to just change it each time as well. I'm not currently finding a compelling reason to keep doing what I'm doing other than I have 2 more EaO filters in my basement. Where do you get a good deal on M1 filters?
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Originally Posted By: WishIhadatruck
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: JAG
If the high AL is possibly from detonation, increasing oil viscosity beyond this already reasonably oil is not the solution. Higher octane gasoline, insuring piston tops and valves are not overly carboned, and using good spark plugs of right heat range are some solutions for detonation.
Unless its scuffing or oil film break-down on the piston skirts.
If there was piston scuffing, would you expect iron wear to go up as well?
Originally Posted By: addyguy
What did yo re-fill with? Sorry if I missed it......
I refilled with more of the same, Rotella T 10W-30. I have enough in stock to do one more change.
Well, aluminum is softer than iron
I dunno, just throwing ideas out there. Unless you tear it down, you aren't really going to know anyways.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: JAG
If the high AL is possibly from detonation, increasing oil viscosity beyond this already reasonably oil is not the solution. Higher octane gasoline, insuring piston tops and valves are not overly carboned, and using good spark plugs of right heat range are some solutions for detonation.
Unless its scuffing or oil film break-down on the piston skirts.
If there was piston scuffing, would you expect iron wear to go up as well?
Originally Posted By: addyguy
What did yo re-fill with? Sorry if I missed it......
I refilled with more of the same, Rotella T 10W-30. I have enough in stock to do one more change.
Well, aluminum is softer than iron
I dunno, just throwing ideas out there. Unless you tear it down, you aren't really going to know anyways.
First the towing should not have caused this. You had to have a detonation issue I can almost gurantee it. The transmissiona nd engine in that car is almost the twin of that used in the trucks and in the sports car of that day! The twoing would maybe increase iron by 1ppm and maybe lead 1ppm is their was shock loading or the oil thinged to the point it was no longer able to float the parts but we are not seeing that.
I would run a bottle of Si-1 Redline Feel cleaner if you can not find that Stop at the Toyota Dealership in Grand Rapids and pick up two cans of their old Toyota fuel injector cleaner. It comes in tiny gray cans abut the size of tomato paste can's. It is super concentrated and works great!!!! Run two cans to a full tank of fuel. Check your spark plugs and other ignition parts and check your timing! If you need any ignition parts OEM is best but if you have to get after market get the highest grade of the AutoZOne offers those are close to OEM quality.THis is definatly an ignition issue and not an oil issue.
I would run a bottle of Si-1 Redline Feel cleaner if you can not find that Stop at the Toyota Dealership in Grand Rapids and pick up two cans of their old Toyota fuel injector cleaner. It comes in tiny gray cans abut the size of tomato paste can's. It is super concentrated and works great!!!! Run two cans to a full tank of fuel. Check your spark plugs and other ignition parts and check your timing! If you need any ignition parts OEM is best but if you have to get after market get the highest grade of the AutoZOne offers those are close to OEM quality.THis is definatly an ignition issue and not an oil issue.
Thanks for the advice John. I've been using a FI cleaner recommeneded by Dyson on and off so I'm probably good there.
All the the plugs, wires, optispark, etc have all been replaced recently enough with OEM parts that they should be fine but I'll pull the spark plugs as soon as I can and see if they reveal anything. The computer controls the timing and I can't do much other than watch what it does on the Scanguage, or can I?
Since the engine did run hot and hard for a few extended periods it is possible it was causing some detonation. Even with good ignition parts and correct timing this would be possible, right?
I did look at the OCI records for the car and I did determine that the previous OCI was from Sept-May. I did pull the trailer in October but it was under typical 60-82 degree temps in Michigan with minimal hills. That UOA came out fine. This summer however included 2400 miles that had some mountains in it and some of that was 90+ degrees. That trip was the only time I've ever seen the engine get warmer than normal and even then it was only under a few situations.
I also just remembered we did have one instance near Rochester, NY where we almost ran out of gas on the toll road. We did make it to the pump but the check engine came on due to low fuel pressure and the car was stumbling at the time. Could that have done anything?
All the the plugs, wires, optispark, etc have all been replaced recently enough with OEM parts that they should be fine but I'll pull the spark plugs as soon as I can and see if they reveal anything. The computer controls the timing and I can't do much other than watch what it does on the Scanguage, or can I?
Since the engine did run hot and hard for a few extended periods it is possible it was causing some detonation. Even with good ignition parts and correct timing this would be possible, right?
I did look at the OCI records for the car and I did determine that the previous OCI was from Sept-May. I did pull the trailer in October but it was under typical 60-82 degree temps in Michigan with minimal hills. That UOA came out fine. This summer however included 2400 miles that had some mountains in it and some of that was 90+ degrees. That trip was the only time I've ever seen the engine get warmer than normal and even then it was only under a few situations.
I also just remembered we did have one instance near Rochester, NY where we almost ran out of gas on the toll road. We did make it to the pump but the check engine came on due to low fuel pressure and the car was stumbling at the time. Could that have done anything?
Something from the past, either here or somewhere else nags at me. It concerns aluminum timing gears on 5.7L engines. You might do some research in that direction.
Why do I mention this? I once had a 305 Chevy (my wife's truck, actually)that had excessively worn timing components in just over 100K miles. As I recall, the cam gear was a scintered aluminum piece with a plastic coating on the teeth. The chain wore through the plastic and started eating into the aluminum teeth. No oil analysis done, but the engine sure woke up when the chain& gears were replaced.
I diagnosed it by placing the engine on the crank pulley TDC mark, rotating it clockwise ONLY, then removing the dist cap and marking precisely the position of the rotor on the distributor housing. I then rotated the crankshaft pulley counter-clockwise very carefully while observing the rotor, stopping when I had taken out all the slop and the rotor started to move. The chain/gears had a tremendous amount of slop. I later checked with a degree wheel to see how much the cam timing was retarded. It was on the order of 8 degrees from stock, IIRC. The main point of this, however, is the aluminum from the gear. Anyhoo, this would be a less dire possibility than eroded pistons.
The driving scenario you describe sounds within the realm of OK to me. Engines should be able to take that without complaint or detonating... and 230F while being worked hard is not too hot. You can get piston crown erosion from more or less inaudible detonation, but I really don't know enough to comment on how that might show up in a UOA. Excessively high cylinder/piston temps can result in piston scuffing and abnormal skirt wear that might show up in a UOA, but again, I can't read that from a UOA. And in my experience that scenario shows up on temp gauge reading a lot higher than 230. For piece of mind, it might be worth the expense of getting a consultation from someone like Terry Dyson, who seems better able to read the tea leaves in a UOA better than most. Might give you some piece of mind after the dose of worry you probably have after reading this thread
( : < ). Of course, he might add to it too! Best-o-luck tracking this down.
Why do I mention this? I once had a 305 Chevy (my wife's truck, actually)that had excessively worn timing components in just over 100K miles. As I recall, the cam gear was a scintered aluminum piece with a plastic coating on the teeth. The chain wore through the plastic and started eating into the aluminum teeth. No oil analysis done, but the engine sure woke up when the chain& gears were replaced.
I diagnosed it by placing the engine on the crank pulley TDC mark, rotating it clockwise ONLY, then removing the dist cap and marking precisely the position of the rotor on the distributor housing. I then rotated the crankshaft pulley counter-clockwise very carefully while observing the rotor, stopping when I had taken out all the slop and the rotor started to move. The chain/gears had a tremendous amount of slop. I later checked with a degree wheel to see how much the cam timing was retarded. It was on the order of 8 degrees from stock, IIRC. The main point of this, however, is the aluminum from the gear. Anyhoo, this would be a less dire possibility than eroded pistons.
The driving scenario you describe sounds within the realm of OK to me. Engines should be able to take that without complaint or detonating... and 230F while being worked hard is not too hot. You can get piston crown erosion from more or less inaudible detonation, but I really don't know enough to comment on how that might show up in a UOA. Excessively high cylinder/piston temps can result in piston scuffing and abnormal skirt wear that might show up in a UOA, but again, I can't read that from a UOA. And in my experience that scenario shows up on temp gauge reading a lot higher than 230. For piece of mind, it might be worth the expense of getting a consultation from someone like Terry Dyson, who seems better able to read the tea leaves in a UOA better than most. Might give you some piece of mind after the dose of worry you probably have after reading this thread
( : < ). Of course, he might add to it too! Best-o-luck tracking this down.
Thanks for your thoughts on this Jim. I'm very tempted to have Terry take a look at my next UOA since not only was the Aluminum high but the viscosity was much higher as well. I switched to the Rotella on his recommendation and perhaps at this point he'd recommend something else since he indicated using this oil would be a short term suggestion rather than long term. Obviously either my operating condtions have changed or the engine has changed or both so paying for his opinion again might be worth it.
I'm wondering about oil consumption - I didn't see you mention if the engine lost any oil. With the temps the oil went through, and the thickening, if there was oil consumption, I'd say it was from valatility loss, and the resulting thicking of the oil left. Certainly a possibility.
I never added any oil over the OCI. It might have lost 1/4 quart or so. I fill it with exactly 5 quarts which leaves it right at the full mark.
A few times it ran up to 232 degrees, one time for up to 20 minutes continuous. 95% of the trip it was running 200-206. This is per the Scanguage. The factory analog gauge in the cluster does not give you any numbers, just a low mark, med. mark and a red mark. Usually it runs a bit below the med. mark and that is typically showing 206 on the scanguage. When it was running around 230 it was 1/3 of the way between the med. and red mark.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
How fresh is your coolant?
2.5 years and about 30k miles.
How fresh is your coolant?
2.5 years and about 30k miles.
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