Rotella 15w40 vs. Amsoil 15w40

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(perhaps this test has already been posted - I didn't see it in looking at a couple of pages of this particular forum) So I'm reading the latest edition of "Action News" - an Amsoil pub. Given to me by my friend who is an Ams. rep. Amsoil has a full write-up of a test they did in garbage trucks used by a company in Minnesota - these particular trucks are very abusive of the oil in that the oil is tasked in the engine as well as the other machinations of the trucks including one requiring 3500 psi on the oil. Long story short - the trucks were run on Rotella 15w40 for around 240 hours, then run on Amsoil for close to 1000 hours. Rotella got slaughtered in the testing - viscosity plunged, TBN plunged, all in 240 hours. Amsoil, for the duration of the sub. 1000 hour, pretty much held steady in visc. and TBN. One of the engines was torn down and measured for tolerances after the Amsoil run. Results were excellent except for one ring they believed may have been defective from the start - since all others were within new tolerances. My broodings here are not so much on Amsoil's performance, as it is which product Amsoil chose to challenge. I'm not starting the argument on "they should've tested against Rotella T". I'm making the pt, that if Amsoil is going to run this test, then they are likely fairly confident before hand that they will spank the competition. Thus my pt is, what does this say about Rotella 15w40. Amsoil chose that product, and that product fell apart in visc. and TBN (and in short order). Not a confidence builder in Rotella 15w40 (imo).
 
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Rotella 15W40 is pushed on most fleet operators for cost reasons and there is a LOT of marketing directed their way too. Typically it's either Rotella, Delo, Delvac or Kendall dino that's getting drank up at <20,000 mile OCI's in my fleet client locations. Of these we have found that when contamination is held constant all of these oils have their positive attributes and look pretty solid. When you start getting into the real world of low level coolant leaks, EGR soot and fuel dilution the Rotella dino typically looses a little swagger when looking across engine platforms (i.e. Caterpillar C series and Cummins ISM). As Amsoil is now pushing their commercial side of the business they will have to compete with dino formulas with deep roots like Rotella because quite frankly it can be had for <$7/gallon if you are a large outfit with purchasing clout. Tie that with a pallet purchase of oil filters and you are talking some low initial material cost oil changes. To be honest total cost and asset longevity planning don't always win over cheap and plentiful. Amsoil and Delvac1 costing 3x as much or more than the dino offerings, depending on the grade, is a tough initial sale to most management, but in the case of this study it looks like a no brainer when the data comes in. All and all using a high quality synthetic oil in mechanically sound fleet equipment will have a positive ROI in about 70% of the situations one would face...just don't try it in a government fleet operation LOL!
 
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Yes posted before. https://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2695.pdf http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1527286#Post1527286 Not many people commented. I mainly posted it because some folks claim "Amsoil only does lab tests" (which of course is silly and ignorant). Amsoil chose one oil that is popular, OR they chose an oil that Nordic waste was thinking about using. I don't think they singled out Rotella for any evil reasons. And I think doing a whole variety of oils would have been a bit impractical.
 
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 Originally Posted By: pickled
As Amsoil is now pushing their commercial side of the business...
There has been no change in the last 10+ years. Perhaps your perception has changed? Just curious what you are seeing/hearing?
 
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Did you see the trucks? Where have you ever seen garbage trucks that looked that good? If the rest of their fleet looks that good, they are essentially commercial-grade BITOGers and maintenance is part of the fun for them.
 
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 Originally Posted By: Pablo
 Originally Posted By: pickled
As Amsoil is now pushing their commercial side of the business...
There has been no change in the last 10+ years. Perhaps your perception has changed? Just curious what you are seeing/hearing?
Yes they are pushing the commercial side more. Higher compensation, more documents on fleets, and the one of the sales director giving a slide show presentation. I would say, they would like to see more commercial biz.
 
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The alignment of the commercial credits and cash percentage for dealers would be one thing Pablo...if that isn't a push I don't know what is. A lot of guys are calling on my clients who never did before...they were busy chasing oil change places and Car Quest stores to get their 20% incentive before. What pays the most in sales is where sales folks will focus.
 
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Commercial doesn't pay the most, Amsoil just evened it up, and I was thinking that was just for ease of accounting. Amsoil has upped the professionalism on everything, and maybe the commercial side was lagging. I can however see how this would definitely would be perceived as pushing to the front.
 
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I think balancing commercial is a great strategic move for Amsoil. After all if you see a product that kicks but in heavy duty use at work your going to think twice about why you are not using it at home. Demand volumes are a lot steadier on the commercial side too. I've been reading a lot of communications from Steve Lepage (SP) and he seems like a solid RSM...he's got it going on.
 

ericthepig

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 Originally Posted By: ericthepig
My broodings here are not so much on Amsoil's performance...
But I admit to brooding on that performance. I never expected to see such disparity in a "quality" dino and Amsoil. If I was one of the above said managers, the destruction of the Rotella lubricant in these tests (and I don't know how you could describe it otherwise) would give me pause.
 
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I here you. Again when I'm consulting on fleet maintenance set-ups I recommend high quality cost effective synthetic lubricants from stem to stern if the equipment is still in decent condition. We follow obsolescence protocols on the mixed fleets- i.e. the high cost/mile garbage gets the least expensive HDEOs we can muster and are campaigned at a higher frequency (usually due to emergency maintenance vs. planned maintenance cycles) to thwart the rampant exposure to coolant, fuel system/induction soot loading and dilution issues. Planned replacement via lease vehicles or new capex comes to play for the thrashed vehicles because their cost/mile sucks! It's almost like a from of battlefield triage....the mortally wounded get little attention while those that can be saved within cost and effort parameters are shown their way back home!
 
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ericthepig

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Pickled, well, the oil selection for some of these companies now makes more sense to me. It's a bit more complicated that I first realized. If the company runs trucks w/ prestine maint., then oil X might make sense. Otherwise, perhaps oil Y makes more sense.
 
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I agree that those trucks are pretty clean, and the Amsoil was an 'easy sell', b/c they obviously look after their equipment in this company. Contrast that to the city I live in, Ottawa, Canada. Our city uses the cheapest re-refined Safety-Kleen oil they can wrangle, and has a 'no oil changes' policy for all equipment. Yup, you read that right. No oil changes are done an any equipment, as it is not cost-effective. Oil is topped-off on equipment, and it is driven to failure. Oil is only changed if the engine is. Buddy drives bus in the heart of this system. The rate of equipment failure would make most people's heads spin. Buddy called me up at my office last week, as he was on a break b/c he had just scattered a motor all over the road.
 
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WOW! Now that's an extreme example of run to failure. It costs about $20k to purchase and install a typical diesel crate engine for class 7 and 8 equipment. Now that I know their oil change policy I definitely wouldn't feel safe if I was tooling around on a city bus in Ottawa right now! I'm sure safety inspections are conducted in a pencil whip style.
 
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 Originally Posted By: pickled
Rotella 15W40 is pushed on most fleet operators for cost reasons and there is a LOT of marketing directed their way too. Typically it's either Rotella, Delo, Delvac or Kendall dino that's getting drank up at <20,000 mile OCI's in my fleet client locations. Of these we have found that when contamination is held constant all of these oils have their positive attributes and look pretty solid. When you start getting into the real world of low level coolant leaks, EGR soot and fuel dilution the Rotella dino typically looses a little swagger when looking across engine platforms (i.e. Caterpillar C series and Cummins ISM). As Amsoil is now pushing their commercial side of the business they will have to compete with dino formulas with deep roots like Rotella because quite frankly it can be had for <$7/gallon if you are a large outfit with purchasing clout. Tie that with a pallet purchase of oil filters and you are talking some low initial material cost oil changes. To be honest total cost and asset longevity planning don't always win over cheap and plentiful. Amsoil and Delvac1 costing 3x as much or more than the dino offerings, depending on the grade, is a tough initial sale to most management, but in the case of this study it looks like a no brainer when the data comes in. All and all using a high quality synthetic oil in mechanically sound fleet equipment will have a positive ROI in about 70% of the situations one would face...just don't try it in a government fleet operation LOL!
pickled, when the trucks had these low level coolant leaks, EGR etc, you mentioned the Rotella mineral wasn't standing up too well ? Did you find the oil breaking down too quickly ? Also how did you find the Delvac, Delo or Kendall Dino oils standing up to these situations. I assume not many oils, even esters can withstand coolant and fuel dilution attacks.
 
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Viscosity and TBN really took a hit with the Rotella...it was quite evident that things were sour. Delvac and Delo handled contamination a little better (especially fuel dilution) and Kendall dino was a push with Rotella. We have a couple thousand UOA's under our belt with all kinds of oils on class 7&8 vehicles and off road rigs. I have found very few oils can handle moderate coolant contamination well- hence why we try to migrate to PG based coolants when its practical to do so. Delvac1 and Amsoil's AME are tough and have kept wear at bay under moderate coolant contamination events, but obviously undesirable damage was still present.
 
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