Rotations not needed if tread wears evenly?

[cadfaeltex]

I would thing that even if the tread is wearing evenly there are some good reasons to rotate the tires.

As mentioned, even the depth may be even, the shaping effect of wear on the tires would be different.

Also, give you a chance to see what's going on behind the wheels.

Just my 2 cents but probably worth less.

 

[rslifkin]

My Jeep definitely needs a full 5 tire rotation regularly. The rears wear very well, completely even across the tread. However, the fronts wear the outside edge much faster than the inside edge and center. I've increased the caster recently, which will hopefully help, but I think it's just a symptom of taking fast corners with a solid front axle.

 

[another Todd]

I never rotate. If they wear unevenly, fix it.

 

[JosephHarmon]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
My Jeep definitely needs a full 5 tire rotation regularly. The rears wear very well, completely even across the tread. However, the fronts wear the outside edge much faster than the inside edge and center. I've increased the caster recently, which will hopefully help, but I think it's just a symptom of taking fast corners with a solid front axle.
Increasing the caster will satiablize the ride rolling straight & improve hard braking dive but this exerts more camber angle scrub on the tire.

 

[MarkM66]

Originally Posted By: another Todd
I never rotate. If they wear unevenly, fix it.


Apparently you're going to redesign the whole car, and change physics. Cool..

 

[johnsmellsalot]

Yes I run them to the wear bars. I think people replace their tires too soon. Tires are not legally worn out until they are at the wear bars or if there's cords sticking out. I rotate my tires every 6,000 miles. Rule of thumb, rotate tires every other oil change. BTW if there's cords sticking out, have your alignment checked.
Originally Posted By: Doog
I used to rotate every 5000 with oil service. But after measuring tread I now rotate every 10,000 miles with no difference in tread life. Proper inflation seems to make the big difference.

BTW, do you guys run them to the wear bars?

 

[meep]

depends on tire/car combo. I had a 97 legacy AWD with bridgestone turanzas.... NEVER wore funny, NEVER developed a sawtooth pattern on the tread, cupping, or even uneven wear. it was remarkable.

Most tires I've had will develop a sawtooth pattern that increases in noise. both whine and a sharp consistent slapping sound, like applause.

I'd say you need to rotate at least once every 10k. That said, if you let a bad wear pattern start, especially cupping, it's hard to undo that. My all-terrains get real noisy if I don't rotate at 6k, and for what they cost, I don't want them getting screwed up with plenty of tread left, so for me, it'll be every 6k.

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: RamFan
Rotations not needed if tread wears evenly?


How will tires wear evenly when the weight of the engine and transmission are on the front tires?

 

[rslifkin]

^ Some cars have pretty close to 50/50 weight balance. With that, and depending on the suspension setup, equal, or almost equal tire wear is certainly possible. Of course, different driving styles will effect this.

Originally Posted By: JosephHarmon
Increasing the caster will satiablize the ride rolling straight & improve hard braking dive but this exerts more camber angle scrub on the tire.


Correct. It also pulls weight off the inside rear tire in corners, which has reminded me that my rear limited slip needs new clutches (it still works, but not well at just shy of 130k miles). That has lead to a couple of accidental one-wheel-peels out of low speed turns when I've stomped on the throttle a bit.

As far as camber related wear, it should actually be better. My front end grip feels dramatically improved (not understeery anymore), as the extra bit of camber is holding the tires flatter against the sidewall flex (I'm running 245/70R16 tires, so they have huge sidewalls). Keep in mind, I've got solid front and rear axles, not independent suspension.

 

[mechtech2]

They may be even across, but it would be extremely rare to have the front and backs wear at the same rate.

 

[morris]

Tom McCahill said once, paraphrased. " start the engine, and put the gear leaver in d and with any luck the tires will rotate."

 

[sunfire]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
^ Some cars have pretty close to 50/50 weight balance. With that, and depending on the suspension setup, equal, or almost equal tire wear is certainly possible. Of course, different driving styles will effect this.


Front wheel driven cars are essentially dragging the car using the front wheels. The friction between the front tires and the pavement is what makes the car move forward. Front tires get hotter too.

The rear tires aren't exposed to. There is no way all 4 tires will wear evenly. No matter how well balanced it is how well engineered it is.

 

[cchase]

Not all cars are front wheel drive.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: JosephHarmon
The Steer axle tires change camber significantly and will have more shoulder wear over time.


Once again this is very platform specific. Ever see a late model Benz or BMW with the wheels cranked over hard? Huge positive camber that then becomes neutral as the tires return to center.

Not all cars are the same.

 

[another Todd]

Originally Posted By: sunfire
Originally Posted By: RamFan
Rotations not needed if tread wears evenly?


How will tires wear evenly when the weight of the engine and transmission are on the front tires?


In a rear wheel drive vehicle, burning rubber appropriatly evens out the wear!

 

[pakstl]

I'd only rotate them if they were getting noisy and in that case I'd rotate them to the other side of the car so the tires spin the other way. Otherwise, I'd keep them where they are at.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
On FWD cars you have to rotate tires, as I have not seen one that would wear out tires evenly in that configuration.
But I think that doing it every oil change is crazy, unless someone enjoys this type of work.

Other wise, if a car wears out all tires evenly, why rotate? The whole purpose of tire rotation is to get even wear, so if wear is already even, why do it?


I wish I didn't feel compelled to rotate every oil change. I skipped a few on the OEM tires on our Mazda3 and they wore pretty bad, despite the alignment being in spec. Rotating every oil change at 5-6k miles now and the new tires are doing fine with more miles on them than the originals ever got. Granted these are better tires.

On my Subaru I don't want to take any risks of uneven wear as the diameter is supposed to be close from tire to tire for the AWD system.

Seriously though, rotating tires is my least favorite part about my oil change days.

 

[zeezee]

It is impossible to have perfectly even wear on all four tires on today's FWD vehicles. Most newer cars are designed for slightly negative camber (for stability), which marginally increases wear slightly on the inside edge of the tire.

The front and the rear wheels generally have different camber / toe specifications.

Driving produces additional wear on the front tires, as this is where all of the friction is greatest.

Additionally, simply turning the front wheels produces more wear on the front tires, since there is additional friction involved in making a turn. Ever turn your tires far left / right on your driveway to check them or access tierod zerks? You will find that it leaves black marks from the tires rubbing off against the concrete.

That said, I only rotate my tires once per year these days. That's about 6k miles for one car and 12k for another. Unless you explicitly have a 6k mile free tire rotation from the tire reseller (which many do), anything less may simply just be excessive considering the real life of the tire.

 

[ahoier]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
But I think that doing it every oil change is crazy, unless someone enjoys this type of work.
Tell me about it...lol. As we all know, a lot of places sell this service....including Walmart.....and ya, got a buddy who works over in TLE....they get customers who "request" the full rotation and balance EVERY oil change.......as if they believe they "arent getting what they paid for" if they "don't" have it done....hehe.

And obviously, if they request it, they gotta do it....sometimes he says they are able to coaxe them out of it....particularly if the best tires are already on the front axle (for a FWD vehicle...), etc...hehe.

 

[rationull]

Originally Posted By: ahoier
Tell me about it...lol. As we all know, a lot of places sell this service....including Walmart.....and ya, got a buddy who works over in TLE....they get customers who "request" the full rotation and balance EVERY oil change.......as if they believe they "arent getting what they paid for" if they "don't" have it done....hehe.

And obviously, if they request it, they gotta do it....sometimes he says they are able to coaxe them out of it....particularly if the best tires are already on the front axle (for a FWD vehicle...), etc...hehe.



To be clear, tire rotation at every oil change is pretty frequently called for in the manufacturer's scheduled maintenance. Hondas with an OLM specifically call for it, and on vehicles without OLMs it's called for at mileage that coincides with oil changes. Not saying it's always necessary, but it's not like people are making it up at oil change time.