Rock catchers?
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Fram Ultra 99%+ @ 20 microns (by ISO method) 80% efficient @ 5 microns (from Motorking). Rated up to 15k miles. Cheap everyday low price at Walmart and easily available online at many vendors.
Microgreen? No real specs but a bunch of marketing claims. Rated to 10k miles?
Look real hard did ya?
A poster here went 30K on the same oil that posted his UOA's.
Feel free to post the ISO efficiency specs. I couldn't find them. They recommend changing the filter every 10k.
Which ISO # is that?
There are many ISO specs on their page covering manufacturing to testing.
Who actually makes the thing anyway- (anyone ? It probably made at a well known place)
Yes they do recommend changing the filter @10K but not the oil - so which is cheaper ?
With the Ultra or any other filter - I dump the oil - more money than the filter change at 10K
Either the UOA's here with blackstone proved it worked or it didnt.
Blackstones our pet authority right?
I believe they have been issued 2 patents that cover their claim. Which other oil filters have patents?
I like the fram ultra in my lexus- I dont see how its better than my micro green though.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Fram Ultra 99%+ @ 20 microns (by ISO method) 80% efficient @ 5 microns (from Motorking). Rated up to 15k miles. Cheap everyday low price at Walmart and easily available online at many vendors.
Microgreen? No real specs but a bunch of marketing claims. Rated to 10k miles?
Look real hard did ya?
A poster here went 30K on the same oil that posted his UOA's.
Feel free to post the ISO efficiency specs. I couldn't find them. They recommend changing the filter every 10k.
Which ISO # is that?
There are many ISO specs on their page covering manufacturing to testing.
Who actually makes the thing anyway- (anyone ? It probably made at a well known place)
Yes they do recommend changing the filter @10K but not the oil - so which is cheaper ?
With the Ultra or any other filter - I dump the oil - more money than the filter change at 10K
Either the UOA's here with blackstone proved it worked or it didnt.
Blackstones our pet authority right?
I believe they have been issued 2 patents that cover their claim. Which other oil filters have patents?
I like the fram ultra in my lexus- I dont see how its better than my micro green though.
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Originally Posted By: DBMaster
I posted my UOA after 30K OCI. It was using three MG's changed every 10K. The results were reasonable and decent. I'm going with it and not worrying.
Yes you did.
So it works in both your car and on paper with BITOGS most trusted analysis source...Blackstone.
UD
I posted my UOA after 30K OCI. It was using three MG's changed every 10K. The results were reasonable and decent. I'm going with it and not worrying.
Yes you did.
So it works in both your car and on paper with BITOGS most trusted analysis source...Blackstone.
UD
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Feel free to post the ISO efficiency specs. I couldn't find them.
Which ISO # is that? There are many ISO specs on their page covering manufacturing to testing.
The test spec for oil filter efficiency: ISO 4548-12.
Manufacturing and quality ISO specs are something entirely different.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Feel free to post the ISO efficiency specs. I couldn't find them.
Which ISO # is that? There are many ISO specs on their page covering manufacturing to testing.
The test spec for oil filter efficiency: ISO 4548-12.
Manufacturing and quality ISO specs are something entirely different.
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Maybe it has a better construction than most or flows better or has a greater burst limit or just looks prettier. Who can prove it does nothing better? Also who can prove it dosent filter just fine. Im from missouri, show me.
Not much credence in an oil filter giving you "more flow" unless the car is at redline all day with super thick oil which would make the oil pump go in pressure relief mode.
Based on the info above, which filter would you choose?
I choose c a motorcraft since thats what ford recomends.
Originally Posted By: Plawan
Maybe it has a better construction than most or flows better or has a greater burst limit or just looks prettier. Who can prove it does nothing better? Also who can prove it dosent filter just fine. Im from missouri, show me.
Not much credence in an oil filter giving you "more flow" unless the car is at redline all day with super thick oil which would make the oil pump go in pressure relief mode.
- Filter A & B are both full synthetic, and both made for long duration use.
- Filter A captures 99% of all particles 20 microns or larger.
- Filter B captures 50% of all particles 20 microns or larger.
- Filter A & B both have essentially the same Flow vs Delta-P curve, and both 'flow very well'.
- Filter A costs less than Filter B.
Based on the info above, which filter would you choose?
I choose c a motorcraft since thats what ford recomends.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Feel free to post the ISO efficiency specs. I couldn't find them.
Which ISO # is that? There are many ISO specs on their page covering manufacturing to testing.
The test spec for oil filter efficiency: ISO 4548-12.
Manufacturing and quality ISO specs are something entirely different.
Iso covers a gamut of specs/ tests/ guarantees.
Don't know - Ill look and see.
Interested to see what SOMS the patent is for
Any patents on the ultra?
Are we in agreement the claim of 30K on 3 filter and no oil change passes blackstone?
UD
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Feel free to post the ISO efficiency specs. I couldn't find them.
Which ISO # is that? There are many ISO specs on their page covering manufacturing to testing.
The test spec for oil filter efficiency: ISO 4548-12.
Manufacturing and quality ISO specs are something entirely different.
Iso covers a gamut of specs/ tests/ guarantees.
Don't know - Ill look and see.
Interested to see what SOMS the patent is for
Any patents on the ultra?
Are we in agreement the claim of 30K on 3 filter and no oil change passes blackstone?
UD
Originally Posted By: Plawan
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
No, not a Micron rating of 2. It has a bypass filter section that can remove particles as small as 2. This is nothing too special.
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
No, not a Micron rating of 2. It has a bypass filter section that can remove particles as small as 2. This is nothing too special.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Does the Fram ultra manufacturing pass or compliant with- ?
ISO 16949
ISO 14001
ISO 16889
ISO 14000
Microgreen claim compliance on these.
I dont know...
UD
We are talking about ISO efficiency rating that talk about the filtering performance of a filter. Something most well respected filter manufacturer lists as opposed to marketing mumbo-jumbo. I'm sure Champ labs has many ISO manufacturing ratings (especially as the major OEM filter manufacturer) but that's nothing special.
Edit - 5 seconds on Google found this
FRAM Filtration manufactures and markets a variety of quality oil, air and fuel filters, as well as many automotive accessories such as PCV valves, crankcase filters and transmission modulators.
With North American research and development, manufacturing, and marketing locations in Greenville, Ohio; Perrysburg, Ohio; Albion, Illinois; Shelby Township, Michigan; Lake Forest, Illinois; Hebron, Kentucky; Fernley, Nevada; Riverside, California; and York, South Carolina; FRAM Filtration employs state-of-the-art process control and automated inspection equipment to assure that products are made on time and meet rigorous internal and customer requirements. Some plants have also earned a number of quality certifications including ISO 14001 and ISO/QS 9000. Today FRAM is known as America's number one oil filter brand, and the FRAM team continues to manufacture and market a variety of quality oil, air and fuel filters, as well as many automotive accessories such as PCV valves, crankcase filters and transmission modulators.
Does the Fram ultra manufacturing pass or compliant with- ?
ISO 16949
ISO 14001
ISO 16889
ISO 14000
Microgreen claim compliance on these.
I dont know...
UD
We are talking about ISO efficiency rating that talk about the filtering performance of a filter. Something most well respected filter manufacturer lists as opposed to marketing mumbo-jumbo. I'm sure Champ labs has many ISO manufacturing ratings (especially as the major OEM filter manufacturer) but that's nothing special.
Edit - 5 seconds on Google found this
FRAM Filtration manufactures and markets a variety of quality oil, air and fuel filters, as well as many automotive accessories such as PCV valves, crankcase filters and transmission modulators.
With North American research and development, manufacturing, and marketing locations in Greenville, Ohio; Perrysburg, Ohio; Albion, Illinois; Shelby Township, Michigan; Lake Forest, Illinois; Hebron, Kentucky; Fernley, Nevada; Riverside, California; and York, South Carolina; FRAM Filtration employs state-of-the-art process control and automated inspection equipment to assure that products are made on time and meet rigorous internal and customer requirements. Some plants have also earned a number of quality certifications including ISO 14001 and ISO/QS 9000. Today FRAM is known as America's number one oil filter brand, and the FRAM team continues to manufacture and market a variety of quality oil, air and fuel filters, as well as many automotive accessories such as PCV valves, crankcase filters and transmission modulators.
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Do we even know that champ labs doesnt make that filter?
Very few places actually make filters.
So now our own poster Blackstone UOA's are marketing mumbo jumbo? -
Does blackstone analysis back up the mumbo jumbo or not -seems so.
Show me an ultra that passes what db master tests prove. You can't. I looked.
Seems like the ultra does not comply with
ISO 16889
ISO 16949
Question stands why should i use another ultra on my lexus instead of a microgreen?
I have an ultra - show me why I shouldn't switch.
UD
Very few places actually make filters.
So now our own poster Blackstone UOA's are marketing mumbo jumbo? -
Does blackstone analysis back up the mumbo jumbo or not -seems so.
Show me an ultra that passes what db master tests prove. You can't. I looked.
Seems like the ultra does not comply with
ISO 16889
ISO 16949
Question stands why should i use another ultra on my lexus instead of a microgreen?
I have an ultra - show me why I shouldn't switch.
UD
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Plawan
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
No, not a Micron rating of 2. It has a bypass filter section that can remove particles as small as 2. This is nothing too special.
They claim 2 micron in the bypass.
http://www.microgreenfilter.com/faqs
The fram ultra doest have a bypass so it doesn't come close.
Its an excellent single stage filter (thats why I run it) maybe the best (debatable) - but its not the equivalent of any true 2 stage design.
Originally Posted By: Plawan
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
No, not a Micron rating of 2. It has a bypass filter section that can remove particles as small as 2. This is nothing too special.
They claim 2 micron in the bypass.
http://www.microgreenfilter.com/faqs
The fram ultra doest have a bypass so it doesn't come close.
Its an excellent single stage filter (thats why I run it) maybe the best (debatable) - but its not the equivalent of any true 2 stage design.
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^^^The Ultra is 80% @ 5 microns. That's full flow filtration. What percent of flow is the Microgreen passing thru the bypass filter to remove down to 2 micron?
I wouldn't be surprised if the real world performance was not much different.
Again, what does an UOA have to do with filter performance? Users on here have posted 15k runs on the Ultra with Blackstone UOA showing low insolubles. That's normal.
I wouldn't be surprised if the real world performance was not much different.
Again, what does an UOA have to do with filter performance? Users on here have posted 15k runs on the Ultra with Blackstone UOA showing low insolubles. That's normal.
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
.
Again, what does an UOA have to do with filter performance? Users on here have posted 15k runs on the Ultra with Blackstone UOA showing low insolubles. That's normal.
Really?
15K is 50% of the micro greens run on the same oil - totally unimpressive.
Who has gone 30K on just filter changes and makeup oil like DB and had sufficient TBN left over?
Show me. Ive got an open mind.
Open question any patents on the ultra- still waiting...
I run an ultra because I believe its one of if not the best single stage filters on the market.
A 2 stage filter its not.
UD
.
Again, what does an UOA have to do with filter performance? Users on here have posted 15k runs on the Ultra with Blackstone UOA showing low insolubles. That's normal.
Really?
15K is 50% of the micro greens run on the same oil - totally unimpressive.
Who has gone 30K on just filter changes and makeup oil like DB and had sufficient TBN left over?
Show me. Ive got an open mind.
Open question any patents on the ultra- still waiting...
I run an ultra because I believe its one of if not the best single stage filters on the market.
A 2 stage filter its not.
UD
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Who has gone 30K on just filter changes and makeup oil like DB and had sufficient TBN left over?
You could do the same thing with an Ultra, but only use 2 of them instead of 3 over the 30K miles since they are rated for 15K. There have been plenty of guys who have ran Ultras even up to 20K miles.
The TBN is more about the oil than about the filter, so better use an oil that is up for 30K miles of use with some make-up oil.
Who has gone 30K on just filter changes and makeup oil like DB and had sufficient TBN left over?
You could do the same thing with an Ultra, but only use 2 of them instead of 3 over the 30K miles since they are rated for 15K. There have been plenty of guys who have ran Ultras even up to 20K miles.
The TBN is more about the oil than about the filter, so better use an oil that is up for 30K miles of use with some make-up oil.
Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Seems like the ultra does not comply with
ISO 16889
ISO 16949
ISO 4548-12 might be newer than ISO 16889 for filter efficiency testing.
ISO 16949 is just a "quality management" standard. I'm sure they (Fram/Champ Labs) have a bunch of manufacturing and quality related ISO standards they follow. Any big company these days needs to or they aren't recognized as a viable company.
Here's some info on Fram's testing. Even though they don't say in in item #3 in the link below, they are referring to the ISO 4548-12 efficiency test.
http://www.fram.com/support/faqs/#tested
Seems like the ultra does not comply with
ISO 16889
ISO 16949
ISO 4548-12 might be newer than ISO 16889 for filter efficiency testing.
ISO 16949 is just a "quality management" standard. I'm sure they (Fram/Champ Labs) have a bunch of manufacturing and quality related ISO standards they follow. Any big company these days needs to or they aren't recognized as a viable company.
Here's some info on Fram's testing. Even though they don't say in in item #3 in the link below, they are referring to the ISO 4548-12 efficiency test.
http://www.fram.com/support/faqs/#tested
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Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Who has gone 30K on just filter changes and makeup oil like DB and had sufficient TBN left over?
You are not suggesting the oil filter impacts the TBN in anyway, are you?
Who has gone 30K on just filter changes and makeup oil like DB and had sufficient TBN left over?
You are not suggesting the oil filter impacts the TBN in anyway, are you?
If you're getting serious about filtration go to a bypass system in addition to the primary, but IMHO what is the point when the vehicle will have rotted away around the beautifully running engine? Personally, I am not into car collecting or just looking at my vehicles--I use them for various purposes and they wear out. I have yet to ever wear out an engine before replacement of the vehicle or junking was required due to an accumulation of wear and tear in other areas that made the vehicle not worth repairing any more. If I was running a big expensive tractor trailer rig I might think differently.
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Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Plawan
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
No, not a Micron rating of 2. It has a bypass filter section that can remove particles as small as 2. This is nothing too special.
Lol that's sorta funny. If it can remove particles 2 microns in size it certainly can have at least a nominal micron rating of 2. It's 1 filter with 2 ways of filtering. So even if the full flow media can't filter to 2 microns(which it most likely can to some extent) the 2 in 1 filter is still capable of having a mcron rating of 2.
Originally Posted By: Plawan
4th
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Are you sure the MG adbv was working fine? It should be able to push in through the baseplate holes. This one does not. Here is the picture of the filter as it would exist inside the canister. The adbv does not function unless it raises from the baseplate, which would allow oil to flow past unfiltered. The neck on the end cap is too short with the concave baseplate:
Here are a couple more of the filter:
I must say that is an intresting and great looking filter.
Looks very solid. Is it one of those full synthetic medias too.i spent some time researching it but still am not sure of the media type. It does list a micron rating of 2.
Atleast this mg is more than just a full flow filter as well. Definatley overkill but the gent earlier was rifht. If the filter that can filter the most and smallest particles is the holey grail in filters around here, seems like yall ought to be ecstatic about this one.
No, not a Micron rating of 2. It has a bypass filter section that can remove particles as small as 2. This is nothing too special.
Lol that's sorta funny. If it can remove particles 2 microns in size it certainly can have at least a nominal micron rating of 2. It's 1 filter with 2 ways of filtering. So even if the full flow media can't filter to 2 microns(which it most likely can to some extent) the 2 in 1 filter is still capable of having a mcron rating of 2.
You say "could" but no ones done that and analyzed the oil I can find. Love to see it.
The guys that ran the ultras 20K miles dumped their oil at some point and just re used the filter.
You I or any could probably do that with any wire backed media filter in a clean engine with no problem - ultra is not special in this regard.
A Napa Platinum or Wix equivalent comes to mind.
MG's bypass scrub preserves the TBN's effective life by keeping the contaminants in the 2-20 range in filter and out of the oil.
Thats why you can keep the same oil and it tests fine for so long.
Its results back up firsthand what the respected guy here say the primary benefit of a bypass isn't increased engine life - its dramatically extended OCI's.
UD
The guys that ran the ultras 20K miles dumped their oil at some point and just re used the filter.
You I or any could probably do that with any wire backed media filter in a clean engine with no problem - ultra is not special in this regard.
A Napa Platinum or Wix equivalent comes to mind.
MG's bypass scrub preserves the TBN's effective life by keeping the contaminants in the 2-20 range in filter and out of the oil.
Thats why you can keep the same oil and it tests fine for so long.
Its results back up firsthand what the respected guy here say the primary benefit of a bypass isn't increased engine life - its dramatically extended OCI's.
UD
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