Road race oil

Messages
58
Location
Michigan, 48098
I track my car. It's a 2008 Tib GT with the v6 motor. The track sessions typically last 20 minutes. I've used multiple different oils and i'm honestly not sure which is best to use, for multiple different reasons.. I've used Mobil 1 and the OP starts off at a good 80psi at 6,500rpm and then goes to 65psi 15 minutes into the session. Weight was 10w-30 Then tried Valvoline synpower, same thing. Tried Rotella T 15w-40 and that was the only oil i've used that was able to keep the OP above 75psi for an entire 20 minutes. Problem is i'm not sure how my motor is reacting to rotella t, so I went out and bought a jug of Valvoline synpower 10w-30 to swap out. Plus.. i'm not sure if my oil pan is baffled. I run Hoosier R6's. I haven't run into any oil related issues with my motor yet, but I don't know how to look for them. I'll take my valve covers off sometime next week and inspect my cams to check if they're getting proper oil. Just wondering what the better motor oil is to run when tracking the car.
 
Messages
70
Location
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Put a 30-weight in it. 65psi is plenty of oil pressure. What does Hyundai recommend for oil viscosity in that engine?
I agree with the above. I would recommend Mobil 1 0w-40 though, its cSt Viscosity @ 100/40°C is ~14/80 10w-30's are ~11/60 Rotella 15w-40 is 15.5/115 Rotella T6 5w-40 is 15/95
 

Promo

Thread starter
Messages
58
Location
Michigan, 48098
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Promo, Have you been to 3balls racing events at GingerMan, Grattan, or Mid-Ohio?
Yep. I wasn't able to make it to Mid Ohio due to a client meeting at work, but I was at Gingerman, Grattan weekend, and Waterford.
Originally Posted By: EricJRoy
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Put a 30-weight in it. 65psi is plenty of oil pressure. What does Hyundai recommend for oil viscosity in that engine?
10w-30. Starts off at 80psi, hot, and starts to go down. I agree with the above. I would recommend Mobil 1 0w-40 though, its cSt Viscosity @ 100/40°C is ~14/80 10w-30's are ~11/60 Rotella 15w-40 is 15.5/115 Rotella T6 5w-40 is 15/95
I haven't run straight 40 yet.. i'll have to give that a try next season.
Originally Posted By: justinf89
I assume you warm up the oil before track use right?
Yeah, cold OP at 3k rpm is 125psi on 10w-30, and almost 140 with rotella t. I typically turn the car on for 5-10 minutes before going out on the very first session since the car typically has a 2 hour break due to inspection, drivers meeting and all that stuff. After the first session the engine/oil is typically hot enough to get out there with oil pressure being around 90psi at 6k WOT.
 
Messages
8,051
Location
Michigan
I thought I had seen a Tiburon at 3balls events this year. Not a lot of Hyundai's come to track days, so they are noteworthy. I'll drop by and say "Hi" some time!
 

Promo

Thread starter
Messages
58
Location
Michigan, 48098
You have the red Camaro right? I believe I was behind you a couple of times, not sure if it was waterford or grattan but if it's the same car I'm thinking of it had a deafeningly loud pop between shifts. lol first time I heard it I thought I blew a tire. I believe Ken's trying to get a group going for Race Rochester, I'm there every Friday or Saturday around 9pm. You should join us, I won't be there this weekend though.
 
Messages
10,146
Location
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Put a 30-weight in it. 65psi is plenty of oil pressure.
I agree. So the last thing you want to do is run a heavier oil. I much prefer M1 5W-30 over M1 10W-30. It has a higher HTHSV of 3.1cP vs 3.0cP for the 10W-30 and a much higher 173 viscosity index. The advantage of the higher VI is that your OP will be lower on start-up and you will be able to use higher rev's during the warming up process without the oil pump going into by-pass mode. Any typical 5W-30 synthetic oil will have similar viscosity characteristics.
 
Messages
488
Location
Detroit, Michigan
At 6,500 RPM's I would want to see 75-85 PSI. In a road race application in a non-turbo engine Rotella 15W40, or Castrol 10W40 GTX would be my top 2 non-synthetic choices. Other synthetic oils to consider, Castrol Edge 10W40 & 5W40, Mobil 1 0W40. Most cost effective would be plain ole GTX with a OCI after each race. Please note your highest engine wear item should be your valve springs.
 
Messages
488
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Radman
At 6,500 RPM's I would want to see 75-85 PSI.
Why?
Basically without getting too technical running about 15 PSI per 1K RPM will prevent compression wear on the bearings. The pressure should be closer to 90 PSI but I would err to the lower side if this is a fresh engine. Anyone that has spent time tearing down race engines will tell you this simple rule. Check this link written by Bob himself: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-105/
 

Promo

Thread starter
Messages
58
Location
Michigan, 48098
Exactly what I do. I change the oil right after each event, and I would prefer an OP closer to 80-90psi at 6,500rpm and would prefer it stay there instead of start off at 80-90psi and end up being 65psi by the time i'm off the track. The smart move would be to invest in an oil cooler and use M1 straight 40.
 
Messages
2,008
Location
grande prairie AB
Originally Posted By: Radman
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: Radman
At 6,500 RPM's I would want to see 75-85 PSI.
Why?
Basically without getting too technical running about 15 PSI per 1K RPM will prevent compression wear on the bearings. The pressure should be closer to 90 PSI but I would err to the lower side if this is a fresh engine. Anyone that has spent time tearing down race engines will tell you this simple rule. Check this link written by Bob himself: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-105/
I would think that is way too high for oil pressure in that engine. I dont know how the oil pump is driven but im sure getting over 100 psi would be hard on it. Isnt that engine designed to have around 60psi? 10 psi per 1000rpm. I wonder what the bypass is set to? I also agree on some mobil 0W40 or a 5w40. If its good enough for vettes, mercedes, and all those other high performance cars It should be good for your car. I didnt read that post for the high oil pressure but Too high is not good. You can blow out gaskets and im sure with all these new engine designs changing flow and pressure might be counter productive. And wouldnt having a great oil with a good film strength and other superior properties be the best way to prevent wear? I dont know just sounds weird to me.
 
Messages
10,146
Location
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
That link was written not by "Bob" but rather A.E. Haas, and 10 psi per 1,000 rpm was referenced not 15 psi. In the OP's case with a minimum of 65 psi there is virtually no chance of bearing wiping. Furthermore it takes 15 minutes of a 20 minute track session to get sufficient heat in the oil to get the OP down to 65 psi where it stabilizes apparently. So for much of the track session the oil is heavier than necessary. He didn't mention at what OP level his oil pump by-pass valve is set at, but I suspect it's not much higher than 90 psi. Running a 40wt oil he will be in by-pass mode most of the time at max' rev's through a good part of the session which is never a good thing. The spec' oil is a 30wt and the normally aspirated V6 has shown no evidence of requiring anything heavier. Having said that, OP is a design spec'. Neither one of us knows for sure what it is for the OP's Hyundai but it is rarely above 65 PSI at elevated rev's when a light 30wt oil is specified. It could very well be lower as it is for most domestic vehicles like Chevy's where the by-pass valve is set not much higher than 65 psi and 50 psi is fine. Porsche has one of the higher OP requirements at 75 psi at 5,000 rpm and not surprisingly nothing lighter than a light 40wt is authorized. One should always abide by the lubrication maxim; "thin as possible, as thick as necessary".
 

Promo

Thread starter
Messages
58
Location
Michigan, 48098
Quick question, what does the bypass do? Would it by any chance cause the car to enter limp mode if the OP isn't high enough? On more than one occasion i've hit limp mode on the track. I figured it was due to the trans temp so I installed a B&M trans cooler, but while doing that I also switched to Rotella T and stuck with that. After digging around the stock ECU parameters i've found out the OP can be monitored, the oil temp can not, neither can trans temp. I have an autometer OP gauge, and an AEM WB. It could be that my OP was below optimal and caused the car to enter limp. I was on M1 10-30w on both occasions.
 
Messages
488
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Originally Posted By: Promo
Yeah, cold OP at 3k rpm is 125psi on 10w-30, and almost 140 with rotella t. I typically turn the car on for 5-10 minutes before going out on the very first session since the car typically has a 2 hour break due to inspection, drivers meeting and all that stuff. After the first session the engine/oil is typically hot enough to get out there with oil pressure being around 90psi at 6k WOT.
Obviously his bypass is over 140 PSI As far as oil pressures 10 PSI Per 1000 RPM's is the minimum, 15 PSI per RPM's is the maximum. I would run my engine on the high side as I have wiped bearings near minimum. Rotella 15W40 sounds like a winner for his application.
 

Promo

Thread starter
Messages
58
Location
Michigan, 48098
Actually.. i've maxed my 150psi gauge. Let it idle for a couple minutes and set off, let it rev out to 4k and the OP was over 150psi. Not the smartest thing to do, I know. lol
 
Messages
488
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
He didn't mention at what OP level his oil pump by-pass valve is set at, but I suspect it's not much higher than 90 psi. Running a 40wt oil he will be in by-pass mode most of the time at max' rev's through a good part of the session which is never a good thing. The spec' oil is a 30wt and the normally aspirated V6 has shown no evidence of requiring anything heavier. Having said that, OP is a design spec'. Neither one of us knows for sure what it is for the OP's Hyundai but it is rarely above 65 PSI at elevated rev's when a light 30wt oil is specified. It could very well be lower as it is for most domestic vehicles like Chevy's where the by-pass valve is set not much higher than 65 psi and 50 psi is fine. Porsche has one of the higher OP requirements at 75 psi at 5,000 rpm and not surprisingly nothing lighter than a light 40wt is authorized. One should always abide by the lubrication maxim; "thin as possible, as thick as necessary".
I am not arguing with you or anyone else. "90 PSI for a Hyundai bypass?! 50 PSI for a Chevy bypass?!" Cold Oil Temps can pull 180+ PSI. The OP has seen over 150 PSI...so much for 90 PSI. I have built more small block Chevy's than I can count. If 50 PSI was the bypass than how did I sustain 90 PSI? Caterham you obviously are smarter than I.
 
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