RLI TWO-Cycle Lube Tech Tip

[MolaKule]

Renewable Lubricants Inc 2-cycle oil (Bio-SynXtra™ TC-W3 2-Cycle Engine Oil) is a great General Purpose oil for most 2-cycle engine applications.

For chain saws and trimmers, I discovered that one only needs to use it in a ratio of about 60:1, or about 2.0 ounces of oil per gallon of non-ethanol fuel.

I attribute this to their veggy base oils and the fact they use no conventional (Stoddard) solvents.

 

[CATERHAM]

But isn't it only veggy based in part?
I know their MOs are a maximum of 30% veggy, but their hydraulic fluids are up to 80%. The problem in IC engines is thermal breakdown at high oil temp's so it's blended with other hydrocarbon based oils.

 

[Shannow]

Molakule, as a broad 2 stroke question, are advances in lubes meaning that more dilluent is added so that "25:1" traditional recipe is able to be achieved with 50 or so ?

i.e. is leaner oil ratios a rational result of lubricant advances.

 

[JHZR2]

What was the determining factor to justify 60:1?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Molakule, as a broad 2 stroke question, are advances in lubes meaning that more dilluent is added so that "25:1" traditional recipe is able to be achieved with 50 or so ?

i.e. is leaner oil ratios a rational result of lubricant advances.



The recommendation for this ratio comes from actual experience in a 20" chainsaw and a Weedeater Trimmer.

I attempted an initial 40:1 ratio but found that neither tool would run properly on this ratio. Open throttle response was such that the 2-cycle engines would bog down.

I attributed this to the combined flashpoint of the base oils used. The flashpoint of the oil is high so the amount of low flashpoint material (gasoline) has to be increased. At this ratio, it runs very clean with no smoke. I verified this by plug removal, combustion chamber visual inspection, and exhaust port deposit.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But isn't it only veggy based in part?
I know their MOs are a maximum of 30% veggy, but their hydraulic fluids are up to 80%. The problem in IC engines is thermal breakdown at high oil temp's so it's blended with other hydrocarbon based oils.


Of course, not debating the base oil composition at all.

Their base oils are varying mixes of POE, PAO, veggy oils, and veggy esters.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Molakule, as a broad 2 stroke question, are advances in lubes meaning that more dilluent is added so that "25:1" traditional recipe is able to be achieved with 50 or so ?

i.e. is leaner oil ratios a rational result of lubricant advances.



The recommendation for this ratio comes from actual experience in a 20" chainsaw and a Weedeater Trimmer.

I attempted an initial 40:1 ratio but found that neither tool would run properly on this ratio. Open throttle response was such that the 2-cycle engines would bog down.

I attributed this to the combined flashpoint of the base oils used. The flashpoint of the oil is high so the amount of low flashpoint material (gasoline) has to be increased. At this ratio, it runs very clean with no smoke. I verified this by plug removal, combustion chamber visual inspection, and exhaust port deposit.


BTW, I tried a 50:1 ratio but didn't like that one either as there was still some minor "bogging" on WOT.

So I would recommend a minimum starting ratio of 60:1.

 

[Hokiefyd]

I was under the impression that a TC-W3 oil should not be used in an air cooled 2-stroke because air cooled engines run much warmer than TC-W3 oil is designed for. Is this a moot point with modern lubricants? Or was this ever a valid point, even with older conventional lubricants?

 

[MolaKule]

This particular oil is a General purpose bio-synthetic 2-cycle oil and I think it has application across water-cooled and air-cooled engines alike.

I would hesitate to make a generalization for any other formulation.

 

[dave123]

I would like to know what brand saws and trimmers and how much time spent WOT.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: dave123
I would like to know what brand saws and trimmers and how much time spent WOT.


Quote:
The recommendation for this ratio comes from actual experience in a 20" chainsaw and a Weedeater Trimmer.


I don't know what diference it makes but the chainsaw was a Homelite and the trimmer was a WeedEater.

WOT was 95% of the time, the rest was idling.

A friend asked me to try out this product in my two-cycle eqpt. as he was having "bogging" problems with his 3 pieces of 2-cycle eqpt. which were different brands than mine.

A tech tip is simply a recommendation from a homeowner using a specific set of products.

Your results may vary with eqpt. type.

 

[dave123]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: dave123
I would like to know what brand saws and trimmers and how much time spent WOT.


Quote:
The recommendation for this ratio comes from actual experience in a 20" chainsaw and a Weedeater Trimmer.


I don't know what diference it makes but the chainsaw was a Homelite and the trimmer was a WeedEater.

WOT was 95% of the time, the rest was idling.

A friend asked me to try out this product in my two-cycle eqpt. as he was having "bogging" problems with his 3 pieces of 2-cycle eqpt. which were different brands than mine.

A tech tip is simply a recommendation from a homeowner using a specific set of products.

Your results may vary with eqpt. type.



Thanks for the info and type of OPE used makes sense to me now.

 

[Warlord]

Perhaps the machines are lean from the factory so leaning out the fuel/oil mix is making the air/fuel a tad richer and stopping your jetting issues?

 

[Cujet]

Interesting. Is this anything like the SeaDoo synthetic oil that claimed to be 100% biodegradable?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Warlord
Perhaps the machines are lean from the factory so leaning out the fuel/oil mix is making the air/fuel a tad richer and stopping your jetting issues?


I thought of that but the Poulan 2-cycle at 40:1 worked fine, which is why I thought the mix of oils in the RLI had a lot to do with flash point, etc.

 

[FXjohn]

Originally Posted By: Warlord
Perhaps the machines are lean from the factory so leaning out the fuel/oil mix is making the air/fuel a tad richer and stopping your jetting issues?


I wonder. it seems like most 2 strokes are jetted rich so they won't melt down in colder temps.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
What was the determining factor to justify 60:1?


I would like to know this also.

 

[Donald]

I think premix is the better solution for 2 cycle OPE especially for items that get infrequent use like a chain saw and blower. Maybe trimmer. Even if this RLI oil is better than the oil you can get for 2 cycle OPE, its the gas that is most important for trouble free usage.

 

[Darkfire]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Renewable Lubricants Inc 2-cycle oil (Bio-SynXtra™ TC-W3 2-Cycle Engine Oil) is a great General Purpose oil for most 2-cycle engine applications.

For chain saws and trimmers, I discovered that one only needs to use it in a ratio of about 60:1, or about 2.0 ounces of oil per gallon of non-ethanol fuel.

I attribute this to their veggy base oils and the fact they use no conventional (Stoddard) solvents.

Would like to see how it compares at 60:1 (or even 50:1) against the following at a minimum of 32:1.

The long discontinued Mobil 1 Racing 2T
Maxima K2
Stihl HP Ultra
Putoline RS959
Klotz R50

Or even against Pennzoil Air Cooled (TC, not TCW3) at 20:1

If any 2 stroke oil is really good, word of mouth will eventually get around, and it will start being used widely by arborists, and those who fly high dollar remote controlled model planes.

To me, an oil is not great simply because you might be able to use less of it to save money, but rather how well it protects, and how clean it burns regardless of how expensive it is.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
What was the determining factor to justify 60:1?


I would like to know this also.


See post #3058112 above.