RLI BIOSYN 0W-20, 4629mi, 09 Toyota Yaris

[Brons2]

Originally Posted By: prax
Another great report.

This engine is suppose to use 5W-30. Obviously 0W-20 isn't hurting it.


I thought all the new Yotas were going to 5w/0w20?

Clearly this one did alright with it!

 

[ekpolk]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
RLI AND Dyson, wow! That's a really expensive oil change. I don't understand your logic, though. $150+/oil change and you're worried about saving maybe $10 in gas over the OCI by mild-hypermiling?


What you're leaving out of the equation is knowledge. He has it, whereas those who don't do UOA must make do with assumptions. Admittedly, those assumptions are usually very safe, but still, it's nice to actually know what's going on with your engine. And you don't have to do UOA every time (unless you just like to).

I'm amazed at how much criticism there is here regarding UOA. My neighbor has flushed vastly more cash down the toilet playing with his boat than I will ever blow having fun tweaking with UOA.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
RLI AND Dyson, wow! That's a really expensive oil change. I don't understand your logic, though. $150+/oil change and you're worried about saving maybe $10 in gas over the OCI by mild-hypermiling?


What you're leaving out of the equation is knowledge. He has it, whereas those who don't do UOA must make do with assumptions. Admittedly, those assumptions are usually very safe, but still, it's nice to actually know what's going on with your engine. And you don't have to do UOA every time (unless you just like to).

I'm amazed at how much criticism there is here regarding UOA. My neighbor has flushed vastly more cash down the toilet playing with his boat than I will ever blow having fun tweaking with UOA.


I think the issue people have with UOAs is the obvious contradictions from thread to thread. In one thread we state how useless they are except for providing the state of the oil. In another thread, with our fav-oil-of-choice, we tout how great the 'wear' metals are and drool all over ourselves.

So there's a lot of 'forum-hypocrisy', meaning as a collective we aren't consistent.

 

[webfors]

FWIW, good report

 

[21Rouge]

Originally Posted By: ekpolk

I'm amazed at how much criticism there is here regarding UOA.


I agree. We surely realize that the posted UOA is the life blood of BITOG. But people may decide not to make public their UOAs if they get too much grief in this UOA subforum.

 

[REDDOG]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
RLI AND Dyson, wow! That's a really expensive oil change. I don't understand your logic, though. $150+/oil change and you're worried about saving maybe $10 in gas over the OCI by mild-hypermiling?


What you're leaving out of the equation is knowledge. He has it, whereas those who don't do UOA must make do with assumptions. Admittedly, those assumptions are usually very safe, but still, it's nice to actually know what's going on with your engine. And you don't have to do UOA every time (unless you just like to).

I'm amazed at how much criticism there is here regarding UOA. My neighbor has flushed vastly more cash down the toilet playing with his boat than I will ever blow having fun tweaking with UOA.


I think the issue people have with UOAs is the obvious contradictions from thread to thread. In one thread we state how useless they are except for providing the state of the oil. In another thread, with our fav-oil-of-choice, we tout how great the 'wear' metals are and drool all over ourselves.

So there's a lot of 'forum-hypocrisy', meaning as a collective we aren't consistent.


Thanks all for the discussion. There does seem to be a love/hate/revere/lack of trust relationship with UOAs here at BITOG. I personally find value in inexpensive UOA self interpreted and much greater value in much more expensive UOAs interpreted by a true professional.

My interest in oil and UOA's was born here at BITOG as a "lurker" early this decade. The value of the UOA was evident to me in spotting "semi obvious" events such as coolant leaks and dirt ingress. I even found and corrected an intake manifold coolant leak on one of my own vehicles and corrected it before severe wear occurred and the engine could sludge up. That one event saved me far more money than I spent on UOAs for that vehicle. I have found severe dirt ingress issues by UOA on diesels owned by my employer and corrected them, halting severe wear situations. The idea that UOAs are "useless" is completely baffling to me. Some UOAs are more useful than others, for sure.

Let me state I am a complete buffoon with UOA compared to the likes of Terry Dyson. I can squeeze some value out of a UOA, but nothing like a Dyson Analysis.

If one spends 30 dollars on a UOA and improperly or incompletely interprets the data, where's the value? If one can't look at the data and recognize if the lab data received is accurate or not, how does one know they are interpreting from accurate numbers? WE DON'T HAVE the tools or the experience to get maximum value from a UOA.

The value of the UOA comes from the ability of one to verify and properly interpret the data-and that is a true art. Dyson is the master of that art and his services are well worth the cost for those who want to see the WHOLE picture. That cost's more up front, but to me is THE BEST value. I won't be able to afford to do it every oci for sure, but it's nice to "check in" once in a while and monitor for changes after an appropriate oci is decided upon.

My .02.

Oh, and as I said before, like ekpolk, I happen to enjoy UOAs too!
I agree with Rouge and consider the UOA section to be the life blood of BITOG.

REDDOG

 

[Ben99GT]

I've never heard anyone here claim UOAs are useless, what many people take issue with (myself included) is when people attempt to evaluate and contrast the wear performance of oils via the $20-$30 UOA. In that sense, UOAs aren't all that useful.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
RLI AND Dyson, wow! That's a really expensive oil change. I don't understand your logic, though. $150+/oil change and you're worried about saving maybe $10 in gas over the OCI by mild-hypermiling?


What you're leaving out of the equation is knowledge. He has it, whereas those who don't do UOA must make do with assumptions. Admittedly, those assumptions are usually very safe, but still, it's nice to actually know what's going on with your engine. And you don't have to do UOA every time (unless you just like to).

I'm amazed at how much criticism there is here regarding UOA. My neighbor has flushed vastly more cash down the toilet playing with his boat than I will ever blow having fun tweaking with UOA.


I think the issue people have with UOAs is the obvious contradictions from thread to thread. In one thread we state how useless they are except for providing the state of the oil. In another thread, with our fav-oil-of-choice, we tout how great the 'wear' metals are and drool all over ourselves.

So there's a lot of 'forum-hypocrisy', meaning as a collective we aren't consistent.



You betcha!

But that's human nature. I glean something from that too. You get a side note study in human behaviors while you're here

I find that (UOA double standards) and stuff like passionately defending a brand/make as though it will love you back for your devotion very entertaining and am sometimes amazed at how un-self aware many people are. It's a puzzle for me. I also have to entertain that I suffer from the same condition in one way or another.

BITOG= USA "characters welcome"

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I honestly don't have any proof how the EBH affects metals, but based on my other vehicles without them I would say very little. My wife's Rogue throws the same low numbers with Schaeffer's summer or winter.

This oil cranked super easy with or without being preheated. I honestly use the heater to preheat for FE more than anything else. Plus I get heat quicker too without idling the engine.


I don't think that there's any way that it couldn't improve wear. You've reduced the 3 chief elements of unavoidable wear. It's a shorter time span for additive activation, thermal saturation, and corrosive fuel/moisture related issues.

It's probably more difficult to measure any reduction given that an engine can last 20+ years 300k+ without failing because of it.

 

[REDDOG]

It surely can't hurt and does significantly shorten warm up times.

 

[Gary Allan]

I'm quite sure that it helps. If you time it correctly it should be a win:win deal. All you have to do it break even on warm up fuel savings and the benefits are free.


I've wanted to run a series of tests with both oil and engine heaters. Alternate them ..run both ..etc. Now you could do it for the full 12 months, but it would surely produce more easily defined results where someone could be in subfreezing temps.

The most difficult aspect of such a test would be enduring the plug in:unplug event every time you drove anywhere.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: webfors
...

So there's a lot of 'forum-hypocrisy', meaning as a collective we aren't consistent.
That is one scary statement

 

[ARCOgraphite]

The oil looks great, nice EP/detergent balance, like the Antimony appearance, I think(?!)
Also, showing a very low ppm of fine wear metals for an engine still breaking in - though the 1.5L 1NZFE engine has a pretty good sump-volume/swept-area ratio to its advantage (4 litre sump).

 

[Gary Allan]

It's the highly visible elephant that roams freely around here.

It's sorta like how a mother rallies around the kids even if they really did something wrong ..except it's applied in all directions. Promote under the same rules that you cry foul when they were used by others.

It's kinda comical from my perspective. People mostly can't help themselves in spite of being highly intelligent. Watching the progression ..or regression rather...into instinctive defensive mechanisms.

I'm still trying to figure out the emotional bonds to motor oil.

 

[odie]

maybe it has something to do with a certain part of the male anatomy . Its not his nose that grows theory

?

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
It's kinda comical from my perspective. People mostly can't help themselves in spite of being highly intelligent. Watching the progression ..or regression rather...into instinctive defensive mechanisms.

I'm still trying to figure out the emotional bonds to motor oil.


Definitely something to behold in action.. eh?