I'm all for trying new things with experiments however I think that if I put a freezing penny into scorching hot oil, all that would happen is the penny gets hot and the oil gets colder. Although I have put a scorching penny into room temp synthetic oil...it's one way to create a thin layer of varnish on the penny within a few seconds.
RLI 5W-40 Oil Experiment
- Thread starter JAG
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JAG, I appreciate the effort and stress of your experimental investigations. I suggest that the globules may be residuals of the dishwasher detergents or some other contamination in the testing protocal. To date after hundreds of test series we have not observed RLI BIOSYN 5w40 or any of the other formulas show that result.
In Dyson FTIR Oxidation testing of actual VOA and UOA in the RS4 tests using Oxidation: integrated area from 1800 to 1670 cm-1 minus integrated baselines 1) 2200 to 1900 cm-1 and
2) 650 to 550 cm-1. Results are reported in Abs/0.1 mm
We record:
07 RS4 4.2 Audi FSI,DI V8
M1 0w40 RLI BIOSYN 5w40
4500 miles 4286 miles
Fe 37 ppm Fe 12 ppm
100c 11.8 cSt 100c 13.0 cSt
OXD 32 ( voa 10) 144 (voa 154)
Yes the oxidation dropped reduced on RLI BIOSYN while M1 was 22 units higher.
Both units consumed 1.5 qts of oil 1/4 qt added to BIOSYN engine, no added oil to M1 engine.
JAG a good test protocal you might investigate is the ICOT, iron corrosion oxidation test using 27 ppm iron acetylacetonate as catalyst defines the oxidation resistance by three properties:
viscosity increase (Δη increase in TAN and
the evaporation loss due to oxidation.
Don't have the exact specs but it would be more informative for what you are looking for.
And for Goodness sake be careful in your testing..
Terry
In Dyson FTIR Oxidation testing of actual VOA and UOA in the RS4 tests using Oxidation: integrated area from 1800 to 1670 cm-1 minus integrated baselines 1) 2200 to 1900 cm-1 and
2) 650 to 550 cm-1. Results are reported in Abs/0.1 mm
We record:
07 RS4 4.2 Audi FSI,DI V8
M1 0w40 RLI BIOSYN 5w40
4500 miles 4286 miles
Fe 37 ppm Fe 12 ppm
100c 11.8 cSt 100c 13.0 cSt
OXD 32 ( voa 10) 144 (voa 154)
Yes the oxidation dropped reduced on RLI BIOSYN while M1 was 22 units higher.
Both units consumed 1.5 qts of oil 1/4 qt added to BIOSYN engine, no added oil to M1 engine.
JAG a good test protocal you might investigate is the ICOT, iron corrosion oxidation test using 27 ppm iron acetylacetonate as catalyst defines the oxidation resistance by three properties:
viscosity increase (Δη increase in TAN and
the evaporation loss due to oxidation.
Don't have the exact specs but it would be more informative for what you are looking for.
And for Goodness sake be careful in your testing..
Terry
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- Sep 28, 2002
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Quote:
I was thinking Santa Clause?
Van gogh, perhaps ..in the advanced stages of his (shh) illness??
Thanks for the suggestions Terry. I am sure that the cups I used had no contamination. 100% sure...I swear on my dead cat's grave! It takes me a long time just to get a test ready because I am so careful about every relevent aspect of the test. What I had no control over was the oil sample I got from RI_RS4. The sample was in a plastic bottle surrounded by a zip-lock bag which was in turn in a plastic bottle. All seals were tight.
At this point there is your vast amounts of collected data and there is my one little piece of data that is eye-opening funky. They do not seem compatible. What I will do is try to find out if my RLI oil sample is contaminated or if there is separation of ingredients (perhaps HOBS separated out). I'll report back any findings.
Is there any chance that the oxidation products of HOBS is at a different frequency range(s) than you are testing for? IOW, do different ranges have to be tested for a HOBS-based oil vs other typical oils? I see that the oxidation value of the RLI dropped which indicates to me that something weird is going on. That is, real oxidation always occurs to some degree so something has to be the cause of the measured value of oxidation to drop.
I'll also look into the ICOT test.
Thank you.
At this point there is your vast amounts of collected data and there is my one little piece of data that is eye-opening funky. They do not seem compatible. What I will do is try to find out if my RLI oil sample is contaminated or if there is separation of ingredients (perhaps HOBS separated out). I'll report back any findings.
Is there any chance that the oxidation products of HOBS is at a different frequency range(s) than you are testing for? IOW, do different ranges have to be tested for a HOBS-based oil vs other typical oils? I see that the oxidation value of the RLI dropped which indicates to me that something weird is going on. That is, real oxidation always occurs to some degree so something has to be the cause of the measured value of oxidation to drop.
I'll also look into the ICOT test.
Thank you.
I believe you JAG ! Please do the same for our work.
I cannot explain what would separate out. I have not observed it. As I have stated the last fluid I would ever recommend to ANY customer would be a defective one. I think you answer your own question when you state the funky single result and our testing that indeed is more than I can share on BITOG ( I am trying to get out as much as possible since RI_RS4 decided to share the work we are doing and did for him. BTW he is a Professional level customer and NOT tied to RLI or me in any fashion. He just pays me really well!
BIOSYN is absolutely cutting edge technology and there are components of the fluid that indeed can REDUCE the baseline oxidation rates. Normal oil analysis labs band location for oxidation testing is 1700 -1730 (cm-1). You will note that I check more than that for a reason.
Bio based fluids to present a synthetic level of internal oxidation influence that anyone in the industry understands biases the product in certain testing protocols as being oxidatively unstable. The informed and experience formulator understands and adjusts for this effect.
That "something weird" going on is one of the reasons we can use this product to FIX the problem we were having with an engine that fuel dilutes ( increasing oxidation and nitration) while shearing the fluid AND increasing wear over normal drain intervals ( 10,000 miles). We are still working to perfect with a optional 10w40 form of the oil called SAE40 BIOSYN but I think I have it licked. The key is controlling all those effects and in the RLI formulas I am able to do it when NO one else could get it done.
I have interpreted data using the euro oriented ICOT test in research for military needs looking for semi or permanent lubes.
BTW JAG what kind of engineer are you and in what field are you working now, for who ? Email me if needed I just have to know!
And please do not blow up the BBQ or light off any fumes in the oven. The guy with the blow torch testing MMO really makes me afraid for those of you into homegrown experimental investigations. I love em but please be careful.
Terry
I cannot explain what would separate out. I have not observed it. As I have stated the last fluid I would ever recommend to ANY customer would be a defective one. I think you answer your own question when you state the funky single result and our testing that indeed is more than I can share on BITOG ( I am trying to get out as much as possible since RI_RS4 decided to share the work we are doing and did for him. BTW he is a Professional level customer and NOT tied to RLI or me in any fashion. He just pays me really well!
BIOSYN is absolutely cutting edge technology and there are components of the fluid that indeed can REDUCE the baseline oxidation rates. Normal oil analysis labs band location for oxidation testing is 1700 -1730 (cm-1). You will note that I check more than that for a reason.
Bio based fluids to present a synthetic level of internal oxidation influence that anyone in the industry understands biases the product in certain testing protocols as being oxidatively unstable. The informed and experience formulator understands and adjusts for this effect.
That "something weird" going on is one of the reasons we can use this product to FIX the problem we were having with an engine that fuel dilutes ( increasing oxidation and nitration) while shearing the fluid AND increasing wear over normal drain intervals ( 10,000 miles). We are still working to perfect with a optional 10w40 form of the oil called SAE40 BIOSYN but I think I have it licked. The key is controlling all those effects and in the RLI formulas I am able to do it when NO one else could get it done.
I have interpreted data using the euro oriented ICOT test in research for military needs looking for semi or permanent lubes.
BTW JAG what kind of engineer are you and in what field are you working now, for who ? Email me if needed I just have to know!
And please do not blow up the BBQ or light off any fumes in the oven. The guy with the blow torch testing MMO really makes me afraid for those of you into homegrown experimental investigations. I love em but please be careful.
Terry
Terry, I will PM you with my job info.
JAG, Thanks, got it!
This is BITOG, its different because most of use really care, about truth, and being kind to one another. Hey we can disagree but remember I get around and might come to say hi in person!
I know for myself that I like to share neeto stuff but I am driven by much more than a dollar sign, my faith is in my creator and try to live that way.
This is BITOG, its different because most of use really care, about truth, and being kind to one another. Hey we can disagree but remember I get around and might come to say hi in person!
I know for myself that I like to share neeto stuff but I am driven by much more than a dollar sign, my faith is in my creator and try to live that way.
Good good. I too am dedicated to finding the truth and trying to be kind. Some people make it hard to be kind to them but I still try.
On the RLI subject, I can't say I disagree with you. I can say that right now I'm in "I don't know what the heck is going on with this stuff." Hopefully the future testing will bring clarity to my mind and I hope we can keep communicating in a data sharing way. I just want to help. I prefer to help by showing how amazing products are but if I find something that shows a change should be made, that can help too. Attempting new things can bring some surprises, not all of them good. The first synthetic motor oils being an example. As I said, right now I don't know what to think. I just did one test of the RLI oil.
On the RLI subject, I can't say I disagree with you. I can say that right now I'm in "I don't know what the heck is going on with this stuff." Hopefully the future testing will bring clarity to my mind and I hope we can keep communicating in a data sharing way. I just want to help. I prefer to help by showing how amazing products are but if I find something that shows a change should be made, that can help too. Attempting new things can bring some surprises, not all of them good. The first synthetic motor oils being an example. As I said, right now I don't know what to think. I just did one test of the RLI oil.
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