Rings stuck in grooves

[Winger4647]

so how did the logic jump occur that it was the rings or wd 40 giving you 0 compression?
I'm missing something.. getting a "does not compute" in my head.

Ha! I'm not computing either, matter of fact royally confused and frustrated. I have been told by several people that WD40 leaves a sticky residue. I do not know!. I DO KNOW it tried to start with ether, then gas but backfired both times so at that time I must have had compression of some amount. It won't run at 30 advanced so that is why it backfired, the dizzy was not exactly where it was removed. Did the explosion force the sticky carbon covered rings into the grooves? Don't know. Honestly I also do not know if all cylinders are the same just the 3 I checked. Just too cold to work out there today.

Like I said previously mechanic here said he has seen this MANY times and needs a piston soak down the ole spark hole. I have never run into this before but normally am able to change head gaskets button her up and get her started within a couple of hours. No biggie!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

But he claims the carbon buildup I saw on the top of the pistons is also on the rings and it hardened, especially sitting open for a couple of months. He suggested his "mix" of 1 qt diesel fuel to 3 qts ATF. Works for him every time I would rather buy something made for this issue if possible.

Not only do I doubt that it “works for him every time”, I would distance myself from any advice he gave you. Diesel doesn’t dissolve carbon, and neither does ATF; however, either one WILL cause problems when burned along with gasoline.

You wouldn’t use a jackhammer to tighten the hinge screw on your eyeglasses, would you? Same idea with what that guy told you. Stick to chemicals and tools that are designed on purpose to achieve the goal you desire to achieve.

 

[kschachn]

And even with stuck rings you’ll get some compression, not “zero” as you state.

 

[Eddie]

Plain old 3in1 oil in the can with a spout.

 

[Rand]

shine a light in spark plug hole verify pistons are all moving.. if so its obv.. something with the heads/timing/valves etc.

 

[PontiacHO]

I just completed a head gasket change on a Ford 400 engine. I noticed the tops of the pistons were well carboned up when the heads were off. The engine sat for close to 2 months open BUT I did spray the walls down with wd40. After finishing I attempted to start and found I have no compression.

I was told by a Ford guy here that the rings have stuck into the grooves and is caused by the bad gas we are sold. He advised me to set the #1 piston 1/2 way down (the rest will then be about the same) and cover the tops of the pistons with a homemade cleaner he told me how to make. Is there a commercial product that will definitely work like B12 Chemtool or Miracle Mystery oil or a combination of something?

He tells me this is a real common problem yet I find very little information on the net regarding and the process to complete. Appreciate any feedback you might have or where to look next.

How did it run before the heads were pulled?

 

[Winger4647]

Not only do I doubt that it “works for him every time”, I would distance myself from any advice he gave you. Diesel doesn’t dissolve carbon, and neither does ATF; however, either one WILL cause problems when burned along with gasoline.

You wouldn’t use a jackhammer to tighten the hinge screw on your eyeglasses, would you? Same idea with what that guy told you. Stick to chemicals and tools that are designed on purpose to achieve the goal you desire to achieve.

 

[michaelluscher]

When I had to do a piston soak (to improve oil consumption) I used B12 Chemtool and Kroil

B12 is a strong and inexpensive solvent, and it broke so much carbon free that it clogged my fluid extractor

Make of that what you will

 

[97prizm]

WD-40 is made to displace water (WD = Water Displacing). It is not intended as a lubricant, long term rust protector , etc. It does what it is supposed to do very well but folks seem to think it is good for all kinds of other stuff.

Yeah. A write up a while back said it was specifically invented for the rocket program to remove water from electrical and other connections.

 

[Sumboodie]

It ran before?

 

[FordFETruck]

Personally have seen the Ford 351 & 400 M shuck a timing gear when starting. Cylinders where the valves are open will have zero compression. Some 289, 302 & 351 W engines would also bend the open valves when that happened.

Had to laugh when I read that. My grandparents had a 64 Ford country sedan with a 289 and 3 speed overdrive. My uncle took it to college, battery dead in middle of winter. He had someone help him tow start it, as soon as he let the clutch out, the timing chain skipped teeth, crashed valves and all kinds of carnage. It got a long block.

 

[FordFETruck]

I've had good success with about a 50/50 mix of Berryman B12 and MMO on a piston soak once. Cheap enough to try.

 

[Free Ride]

A product against, among other things, stuck piston rings that I have read incredibly positive reviews about is:

YAMAHA OEM product

Yamalube Ring Free Plus

Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be available in Europe , only in US/Canada and Australia.
I would have immediately tried it if I could get my hands on it.

 

[RAVL]

I just completed a head gasket change on a Ford 400 engine. I noticed the tops of the pistons were well carboned up when the heads were off. The engine sat for close to 2 months open BUT I did spray the walls down with wd40. After finishing I attempted to start and found I have no compression.

I was told by a Ford guy here that the rings have stuck into the grooves and is caused by the bad gas we are sold. He advised me to set the #1 piston 1/2 way down (the rest will then be about the same) and cover the tops of the pistons with a homemade cleaner he told me how to make. Is there a commercial product that will definitely work like B12 Chemtool or Miracle Mystery oil or a combination of something?

He tells me this is a real common problem yet I find very little information on the net regarding and the process to complete. Appreciate any feedback you might have or where to look next.

GM top end cleaner, or Ford’s equivalent. Soak it good. If the rings carbonize into the piston grooves, we have used a chisel to get them out - that is how bad they can get. (We had no plans on reusing this particular motor as it had a “ventilated” block.)

WD40 is a cleaner to wipe greasy finger prints off of tools, or perhaps to drive water or moisture off of an electrical connection. Otherwise it should not be a go-to.

 

[Paco Pena]

I've used Ed's Red which is a mix of equal parts varsol, acetone, kerosene and ATF on a couple sticking ring situations with a good long soak. Worked for me but I have to think there are better options out there.

Paco

 

[MolaKule]

I would get a quart of HPL's EC and squirt about 4 ounces on top of each piston and turn the crank occasionally.

But as others have said, make sure the cams are moving so as to rule out a broken drive chain.

 

[JHZR2]

I would get a quart of HPL's EC and squirt about 4 ounces on top of each piston and turn the crank occasionally.

But as others have said, make sure the cams are moving so as to rule out a broken drive chain.

I have a potential ring stuck as well. I injected some HPL EC in my diesel to support a compression test. I’m curious if for unsticking the rings, if this is the best agent - don’t we want something lower viscosity? Like maybe EC or ATF cut with B-12 or acetone?

If it’s rust, grease, or carbon, will the EC solve them to get the ring moving?

 

[MolaKule]

I have a potential ring stuck as well. I injected some HPL EC in my diesel to support a compression test. I’m curious if for unsticking the rings, if this is the best agent - don’t we want something lower viscosity? Like maybe EC or ATF cut with B-12 or acetone?

If it’s rust, grease, or carbon, will the EC solve them to get the ring moving?

If its carbon sticking the rings (and it usually is) the HPL EC should at least soften the carbon and allow it to be carried away by its own oil film.

HPL EC is a 20/30 grade oil with a diesel addpack to provide all of the AW, etc stuff to prevent any bore wear. I think it is thin enough to work itself into the ringpack.

Stuff like Berrymans B12 does not have any engine oil AW or any other addpack components, only solvents. What happens when the Berrymans or any other thin solvent washes the cylinder bore of any oil film?

 

[JHZR2]

If its carbon sticking the rings (and it usually is) the HPL EC should at least soften the carbon and allow it to be carried away by its own oil film.

HPL EC is a 20/30 grade oil with a diesel addpack to provide all of the AW, etc stuff to prevent any bore wear. I think it is thin enough to work itself into the ringpack.

Stuff like Berrymans B12 does not have any engine oil AW or any other addpack components, only solvents. What happens when the Berrymans or any other thin solvent washes the cylinder bore of any oil film?

Is the EC solely a diesel add pack, or does the base oil or other adds aid in freeing and “dissolving” (maybe really dispersing?) carbon beyond what an HDEO add pack can do?

I put EC into the cylinder recently when I did a wet compression and leakdown. I ran the engine at idle less than a minute before I pulled the prechamber. You can see how it disperses carbon.

And to be clear to you and OP, im not arguing against it. I used HPL EC with the logic that it will help dissolve any junk and lubricate.

Stuff like Berrymans B12 does not have any engine oil AW or any other addpack components, only solvents. What happens when the Berrymans or any other thin solvent washes the cylinder bore of any oil film?

If we aren’t running the engine, does it matter much? Not sure if much damage could be done slowly turning the engine by hand once. I guess it could. But wouldn’t the added friction help move the rings too?

Or would a mix of light oil with solvent be prudent? Be it b-12 or top engine cleaner with atf/mmo/EC? Similarly, phase separation aside, what about acetone/atf or acetone/EC? It seems to be a superior penetrant…

Just throwing some thoughts out here because I’m going to be doing it too.

 

[thastinger]

Sounds like you may have some misdiagnoses going on here, potentially mixed with operator error.

Sounds like your distributor was removed and then installed at least one tooth off...then there is either something wrong with your compression gauge or you don't know how to use it. Test all 8 cylinders, pull the valve covers to ensure the rockers are moving.