Right filter, wrong car?

[Evan R]

I have driven Volvos for a skillion years. Over that time, I have become a fan of Mann filters. I just plain like them.

So then I bought a Plymouth 2.5. Being a German company, Mann does not list a filter for Plymouth.

I did some digging on the Wix site. Wix is my second choice for filter brands.

The filter listed for Volvo is 51307. It comes REALLY close in specs to the filter listed for Plymouth, 51085.

So I reach into my healthy stash of Mann W917 and screw one on the Plymouth. Fits just fine. Fill the engine with oil, crank it up. No leaks or anything, pressure is fine.

Did I do something stupid?

Thanks,

Evan Reisner

 

[B00SS]

I can't answer your question, but

 

[T-Keith]

I believe both use the same thread and can size, but there are differences. I'd stick with the recomended filter.

-T

 

[Evan R]

T-Keith:

What are the differences? I don't mean to come off wrong, but if you can't tell me the differences, or why the Mann W917 is wrong for the Plymouth 2.5, I think you are just giving an opinion.

Anyone can have an opinion. I prefer facts.

 

[T-Keith]

Sorry I don't have time to go out and buy a filter for you. I'm just telling you what I know off the top of my head. There are differences, maybe some more researching could tell you what.

-T

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't have any access to Mann filter spec's (anyone? anyone? Bueler? Bueler?

) ..but in normal use I wouldn't worry. It may have a better construction and better media ..all of which your domestic iron manufacturers don't appear to feel the need for.

There are ton of options for this engine ..or any engine that uses this very common thread/gasket combo.

Liabilities that I could foresee would be if your filter has some unreal bypass setting to the tune of some VW (and others) in the 20-30lb range. If you reached that PSID you could, in the times that this condition would be present, elevate your pump pressure beyond the limits of its pressure relief. This would lower your total flow to the engine. My current thoughts on it that this is pretty much a non issue in most engines and wouldn't come into play for many thousands of mile in extended drains..but that's just an opinion and not gospel..so take it FWIW.

 

[slalom44]

Looking at the Wix filters you reference, it appears that the 51307 filter is designed for a smaller engine than the 51085. The 51307 is specified for the 2.8L V6 engine used in the Mustang II (which I am very familiar with) while the 51085 is specified for the 4.0 Liter I-6 engine used in most Jeeps. The total size of the 51307 is also a little smaller than the 51085, so it is possible that it has less filter media.

Although I wouldn't expect a problem, It is possible that your bypass valve will open up a little more than the filter intended for the car. Personally, I'd rather have it the other way.

 

[Winston]

If you go to the purolator site. It recommends the same filter 14670 for either the wix 51307 or 51085. It is strange that wix even makes those two different filters. The sizes are almost exactly the same and the specs are the same, hmmmm. Maybe the location of the bypass is different?

 

[Spitty]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston:
The sizes are almost exactly the same and the specs are the same, hmmmm. Maybe the location of the bypass is different?

---

Why do manufacturers do this? I have asked this question befor, But not recived an answer.
You will often see more variation in specification between filter manufacturers for a given application (ie. Fram may have upto 40% less media than a compeating Filter for the same application), than you see in one manufactuers product line covering several applications, Yet all these filters must still meeet waranty requirements.

 

[unDummy]

It shouldn't be a problem.
You should try the 51515 for both cars!

Why not buy both of the Wix filters and chop 'em up for comparison.

Maybe one is cheaper, has more/less media, has thicker/thinner can..............has better/worse quality control....

 

[slalom44]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spitty:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Winston:
The sizes are almost exactly the same and the specs are the same, hmmmm. Maybe the location of the bypass is different?

---

Why do manufacturers do this? I have asked this question befor, But not recived an answer.

---

Here's my opinion, for what it's worth:

Mounting clearances are different on different cars (and on the same cars with different accessories), although the thread size & pitch might be the same. To make all of the filters a little smaller to accomodate the car with the least clearance means that they would likely package less media than the OEM filters for some cars. If the filter manufacturer also wants to use a high quality, low flow filter media, then the filter would spend too much time in bypass on some engines.

So a filter manufacturer that wants to match the filter's flow characteristics as close to the OEMs and do a better job of filtering for all cars, they would have to make several slightly different sized filters. Another manufacturer could use a higher-flow filter media (that might not trap as much dirt) or cram in more pleats and get away with one filter for several applications.

 

[Filter guy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Evan R:
I have driven Volvos for a skillion years. Over that time, I have become a fan of Mann filters. I just plain like them.

So then I bought a Plymouth 2.5. Being a German company, Mann does not list a filter for Plymouth.

I did some digging on the Wix site. Wix is my second choice for filter brands.

The filter listed for Volvo is 51307. It comes REALLY close in specs to the filter listed for Plymouth, 51085.

So I reach into my healthy stash of Mann W917 and screw one on the Plymouth. Fits just fine. Fill the engine with oil, crank it up. No leaks or anything, pressure is fine.

Did I do something stupid?

Thanks,

Evan Reisner

---

I've got a Mann 2000 catalog at home and their 2003 at work.

From their 2000 cross reference, they do not cross the 51307. They do cross the 51085 to W920/6

The W920/6 has these dimensions:
3/4-16 UNF threads
93MM OD as measured at the dome end
95MM Height
Anti-drain---yes
By-pass opening 1.0 bar

The W917 has these dimensions:
3/4-16 UNF* thread.
*) Special
what that means>
93MM OD at the dome end
85MM height
Anti-drain--yes
By-pass opening 1.1 bar

Hope that helps..

If I can remember monday i'll check their current catalog to see if they cross more Wix numbers.

What is the model and year of the Plymouth you bought?

 

[labman]

I think there are only 2 ways to really mess up on substituting filters as long as they screw on and don't leak, no bypass at all, where you need one, and a filter enough larger, that it gets bashed by something. I have chopped up a bunch of filters for my truck. I can't evaluate bypass pressure or media quality. I can see many other differences. Different brands are going to be different. So where is the problem if you use a different number that may be the same as some other brand's recommendation? When I had a Grand Am, I deliberately ran a PH 52 I knew was different from the recommended PF 47. Many of us are into oversize here. If the ST 3950 I am using on my truck ever disappears, I may try an oversize ST.

 

[Big O Dave]

Heck, why not use a Wix 51773 if you can fit it?

It sounds like these filters all end up cross referencing to the venerable Motorcraft FL-1A and its larger brother, the FL299. The Wix 51515 is a direct FL-1A replacement and the Wix 51773 is a direct FL299 replacement. In NAPA parlance the numbers would be 1515 and 1773, respectively.

So, if you have the room, you can get some real BEAST

filters on your cars.

 

[Evan R]

Filter Guy:

I have a '92 Voyager van. 2.5/5-speed.

Big O Dave:

Any filter longer than stock would be too long for the Volvo, interfering with the motor mount or the downpipe, depending on model.

---
Bottom line for all: I still have 6 Volvos + the Plymouth. I buy the Mann W917 by the case at a price cheaper than a Fram (ack!) at the store.

Since it appears that they *fit* the Plymouth, and I can't find any evidence that they will *hurt* the Plymouth. I think I'll keep using the W917 on the Plymouth.

Evan Reisner

[ May 13, 2005, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Evan R ]

 

[Filter guy]

I knew I had this in my briefcase somewhere.

1.0 bar = 14.7 PSI

so a 1.1 bar pressure rated opening as in a W917 is 16.17 PSI.

The Chrysler filter has an 8-11PSI by-pass valve.

 

[surfstar]

for the WIX filters the gasket size is exact, by-pass PSI is exact, size is nearly exactly the same. so i would say you're fine.
as long as the gasket matches up and the threads are the same (which they are) you shouldn't have any problems. just be sure to check for oil leakage for the first few miles.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by labman:
I think there are only 2 ways to really mess up on substituting filters as long as they screw on and don't leak, no bypass at all, where you need one, and a filter enough larger, that it gets bashed by something.

---

Yep, I agree. Talking to some of the filter specialist, opposed to some salesmen we have here, it's hard to mess up today. Unless you go dinky, hydraulic oil, cold north, no bypass (engine or filter), you're just fine tuning.

 

[cmlind]

I am inclined to use the recommended filter. I have a Fords that take the wix 1515. I also have a 2000 cherokee that takes the 1085. I know the 1515 will fit the cherokee as will the wix 1068 which is a short 1515 for Fords with clearance problems(1994 Tempo for example).

On Wix's website I found that the 1068 and 1085 are almost identical. The 1085 is used on Caterpillar diesels though. I have never cut a 1085 open. Maybe they have more media. I feel confident using the 1085 since it is designed for some Cat engines. I should cut one open to find out what is better about it. Maybe nothing, but I have peace of mind with it for now. I also don't want to waste resources on a 1515 if it is not going to help me one bit. A jeep 4.0 will last a long time with fram filters. I think I will be fine with a premium stock filter.

As far as the Mann vs Wix, I would not go smaller. Maybe the Mann has more media in a smaller case. Might be worth cutting them open to find out.

 

[sjlee]

I agree that your best bet is to stick with the recommended oil filter. Oil filters are manufactured to meet the auto manufacturer's standards, so the difference is something that Subaru is requiring. It may be very minor. It may be worth a call to the Wix if you want to know for sure.