There is no way you would get me to buy a complicated battery filled hybrid when simple and economical diesels are available. In a year or two I will be able to choose a diesel I like.
Ricardo Speaks Diesel vs Hybrid
- Thread starter g20ooh
- Start date
- Status
Can you tell me what's complicated about the hybrids?
LOL! IMHO driving diesels isn't gonna save the world first of all, for typical NA drivers would still tend to go for higher displacement or turbo diesel varieties and still consumes fossil fuel into CO, CO2, unburned HC, soot and what-have-you per travelling miles.
while diesels are fairly elegant designs to begin with, regrettably, in order to bring them up to current emissions standards and still be able to satisfy consumer's needs, typical diesel vehicles designs nowadays are computer-controlled/smog controlled and typically came with turbo or maybe supercharger. So, in terms of servicing cost, these things when they fail or in need of scheduled servicing, would have costs more than gasoline counterparts. On the other hand: with chain driven cams and double-platinum/iridium spark plugs, individual spark plug ignition coils and full computer management control, the servicing frequency of most typical gasoline engines these days are less frequent than what it used to be even as recent as a decade ago.
While you may argue the complexity of electronically controlled/driven hybrid motors and what-not, the truth is, if you buy a 2007/2008 Honda Civic, Accord, fit, Camry, etc. and look underneath the hood or look at the factory service manual, these gasoline counterparts are just as electronically-complicated as hybrid, if not more.
So, wit is pointless in this esp. when we have many local taxi cabs running prius and oftentimes seen some high mileage hybrids clocked over 300,000 miles+ serving the public during the past 5 yrs and still silently "creeps" past you in front of the traffic light?
bottomline is: some folks on this board are scared of electronics....(hee...heee....)
My 2c's worth. YMMV of course
while diesels are fairly elegant designs to begin with, regrettably, in order to bring them up to current emissions standards and still be able to satisfy consumer's needs, typical diesel vehicles designs nowadays are computer-controlled/smog controlled and typically came with turbo or maybe supercharger. So, in terms of servicing cost, these things when they fail or in need of scheduled servicing, would have costs more than gasoline counterparts. On the other hand: with chain driven cams and double-platinum/iridium spark plugs, individual spark plug ignition coils and full computer management control, the servicing frequency of most typical gasoline engines these days are less frequent than what it used to be even as recent as a decade ago.
While you may argue the complexity of electronically controlled/driven hybrid motors and what-not, the truth is, if you buy a 2007/2008 Honda Civic, Accord, fit, Camry, etc. and look underneath the hood or look at the factory service manual, these gasoline counterparts are just as electronically-complicated as hybrid, if not more.
So, wit is pointless in this esp. when we have many local taxi cabs running prius and oftentimes seen some high mileage hybrids clocked over 300,000 miles+ serving the public during the past 5 yrs and still silently "creeps" past you in front of the traffic light?
bottomline is: some folks on this board are scared of electronics....(hee...heee....)
My 2c's worth. YMMV of course
Can you tell me that a hybrid powertrain is less complicated than a diesel?
Quote:
Hmmmmmm, let's see -- diesel is a better approach than hybrid?Sigh , well if you want to over simplify ...YES , more often than not .
OK, instead of a Prius, I should have bought one of the diesels available in the US. YEP , if feasible . For others sometimes for sure , many times more often - TRY USED ... OR .... NOPE , ANYTHING CONVENTIONAL 'till the 'new' diesels arrive .
Oh wait -- the only ones you can get now are the Mercedes diesel model and one odd-ball Jeep. Well , speaking of odd , don't you drive a prius? Come on , at least the Grand Cherokee looks 'normal' and is certainly at least as handsome as anything toyota/lexus has thats similiar - doesn't make the same statement as the prius though - which is good for some of us - some are secure in their identity after all - don't feel the need to make a "statement". While I think its a good looking car , others have noted - it appears a little young - and styled with feminine sensibilities in mind . On a positive note ,I understand its been well recieved in the (male?) alternative lifestyle community .
Toyota now has six hybrid models available.with inventory stacking up every day .BTW , how many are built in Japan?
Everything from the super-economical Prius to the $100k ultra-lux Lexus LS-600. That last one was just introduced - we have yet to see if that segment wants to spend 105,000 plus to get 20 miles to the gallon . Personally , the E class diesel makes more sense ; 2x the mileage ,typically at least 40k$ less on delivery .... and it IS an MB .... all those intangibles/tangibles plus MBs superior safety design .BTW, you ever see the MB video comparing a '91 190e to a 93 400ls after a 2.5 side roll accident simulation?
Yep, hybrids are obviously just another of Toyota's market misjudgments. No , nobody is saying that - first of all , its not 'obvious' yet , nor even certain .If it is , it will undoubtedly exceed all previous mistakes - maybe even combined . It will be very public as well .I wouldn't charactorise that possibility as a marketing mistake ; if they do build the 1M/YR (US sales) they claim they will by 2010 and don't get a huge break thru on cost while others go sailing by with more profitable technology packages ....well , I'd call it a management disaster .
What is obvious now , is the repeated assertions that HSD IS the greatest thing since sliced bread thats suspect - or being revealed as largely overstated .Its also looking to stay very expensive - at toyota . Whats really at stake here is toyotas forecasts/assertions/marketing/PR/SPIN vs. a study that Ricardo signed off on .
When it comes to powertrains and likely to be accurate - who HAS THE BETTER RECORD , toyota or Ricardo - never mind things like truth and fundamental engine design skills .
By the way, that pdf is a long report by an outfit with one interest -- selling stock. YEP, no worse and a whole lot better in some respects than those who want you to buy a prius NOW or toyota stock - it does come with at least 27 pages plus of information concerning a topic of interest of which there is precious little of in the public domain - is that why nobody should read this?
At least they openly admit that it's difficult, if not nearly impossible, to invest in Toyota.
The competing brands (far behind in hybrid development) No ,not if you count profitable hybrid design .... anyway , many are way ahead on everything else are easy to invest in. Well , if you say so .Personally I always found its "works better" if you buy low rather than when overvalued - but hey, to each his own .
Gee, no possible conflict there -- just uncritically suck up everything stock-selling UBS has to say.As opposed to listening to who , toyota - and their spin people?
Actually I'm more interested in the RICARDO stuff anyway .
Call them right away -- I'm sure they'll be happy to hook you up with some GM stock. Great idea , - lets develop that further , buy a prius or GM stock now ..... hmmmmm .... use the stock 2/3 years from to buy the new diesel .....ELKPOLK , you are a genius..... only thing is last year was even better for the stock .... well , it WAS 'worse' for buying the prius , now that they are discounting them so heavily - shame how all those cost of ownership studies have been so inaccurate to date - resale value and all .
Just as a start , 16 computers , 3 cooling systems and a service manual that appears to be very much a work in progress .
Contrary to what you hear, a prius has one of the more complicated powertrains out there when you consider the whole system .
Previously on "Days of our cars" ....
"-But GM does not want to be drawn into the debate over producing electricity and hydrogen cleanly. “We will build a car that runs on renewable energy, but it’s not our responsibility to produce the fuels,” said a GM spokesman--
Now for the latest....... --freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070615/BUSINESS01/706150350/1014
Great news and definitely worth a read in its much longer entirety . These are really just some key snippets - about 7% .
Shift at GM could boost Volt
Fuel-cell engineers to move to production
June 15, 2007
BY KATIE MERX
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
--GM signaled the start of production engineering of its hydrogen fuel cell Thursday when it told employees at its Honeoye Falls, N.Y., fuel-cell development facility that it will shift more than 500 of the fuel-cell engineers to core production engineering divisions from its advanced development laboratories division.--
--Burns said more than 400 GM fuel-cell engineers will report to GM's powertrain group to begin production engineering of fuel-cell systems. Another 100 will transfer to the global product development organization to start integrating fuel cells into future GM vehicles.--
--To get a sense of what moving so many engineers means, look to GM's hybrid development. In 2003, GM's hybrid engineers moved from the research and development division to the powertrain production unit. This year -- four years later -- GM will offer five hybrid vehicles. In 2008, it will offer eight.--
--It is being developed so it can be propelled either by a fuel cell with the aid of a lithium battery or by a lithium battery that can be charged by plug or with a small, on-board gasoline generator
( Or maybe a solar panel in Arizona ..... like the kit car above ...... or maybe something like the 'home generator kit by Honda .....)
--David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, said GM's latest announcement "is certainly a big deal," and that he believes "GM has some tricks up its sleeve" for getting a fuel-cell vehicle out to consumers.
--Analysts said automakers typically get vehicles to market three to four years after they begin production engineering.
--Anna Stefanopoulou, a professor of mechanical engineering who specializes in fuel-cell technology at the University of Michigan, called the announcement "really fantastic."--
----And Burns said there's more to come.----
--Earlier this year, GM announced that it had begun production engineering of the range-extended battery version of the Volt.--
--"I see this as enormously exciting," he said. "This should be read as a clear indication that this is no longer theoretical."
"-But GM does not want to be drawn into the debate over producing electricity and hydrogen cleanly. “We will build a car that runs on renewable energy, but it’s not our responsibility to produce the fuels,” said a GM spokesman--
Now for the latest....... --freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070615/BUSINESS01/706150350/1014
Great news and definitely worth a read in its much longer entirety . These are really just some key snippets - about 7% .
Shift at GM could boost Volt
Fuel-cell engineers to move to production
June 15, 2007
BY KATIE MERX
FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER
--GM signaled the start of production engineering of its hydrogen fuel cell Thursday when it told employees at its Honeoye Falls, N.Y., fuel-cell development facility that it will shift more than 500 of the fuel-cell engineers to core production engineering divisions from its advanced development laboratories division.--
--Burns said more than 400 GM fuel-cell engineers will report to GM's powertrain group to begin production engineering of fuel-cell systems. Another 100 will transfer to the global product development organization to start integrating fuel cells into future GM vehicles.--
--To get a sense of what moving so many engineers means, look to GM's hybrid development. In 2003, GM's hybrid engineers moved from the research and development division to the powertrain production unit. This year -- four years later -- GM will offer five hybrid vehicles. In 2008, it will offer eight.--
--It is being developed so it can be propelled either by a fuel cell with the aid of a lithium battery or by a lithium battery that can be charged by plug or with a small, on-board gasoline generator
( Or maybe a solar panel in Arizona ..... like the kit car above ...... or maybe something like the 'home generator kit by Honda .....)
--David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research, said GM's latest announcement "is certainly a big deal," and that he believes "GM has some tricks up its sleeve" for getting a fuel-cell vehicle out to consumers.
--Analysts said automakers typically get vehicles to market three to four years after they begin production engineering.
--Anna Stefanopoulou, a professor of mechanical engineering who specializes in fuel-cell technology at the University of Michigan, called the announcement "really fantastic."--
----And Burns said there's more to come.----
--Earlier this year, GM announced that it had begun production engineering of the range-extended battery version of the Volt.--
--"I see this as enormously exciting," he said. "This should be read as a clear indication that this is no longer theoretical."
You've got to get off this, I'll drive a simple diesel. Ya, your diesel and the onboard chemical plant are not going to be simple. You've also got to wake up and realize that the Prius works. It may cost too much but it's reliable and it works. We've got almost 200 of the little suckers running in fleet service and they just keep running. They are very easy to maintain. Some of the drivers did not want them, but after driving them for a few months, will not give them back. Too may people have specific opinions about them that are not to be confused with facts or experience. In one of the motorpools, the Prius's are always gone first and many Accords and Camry's are passed over to get one. Not only have we never had a batter problem in 4-5 years of operating them, our Toyota contact knows of only two that have been replaced, other than crash damage. We are taking deliver of another 20 today and people are fighting over them. Others are keeping them over 100k miles just to make sure they drive a Prius. Almost no other vehicle ever makes it to 100k without being rotated out, because the driver qualifies for a new car. Anyhow, you have to get off this stuff about a new diesel being the simple thing and the Prius being too complicated.
Don't forget good 'ole plucky Honda .
From an old Honda Press Release available freely for World Wide Distribution - and still worth a read .
--world.honda.com/news/2006/4061129LAShowFCXConcept/
Add this ; http://
Honda FCX Concept on Display at Los Angeles Auto Show
Fully functional next-generation fuel cell vehicle makes first public debut in U.S.
LOS ANGELES, Calif, U.S.A., November 29, 2006 – A fully-functional Honda FCX Concept vehicle will be on display for the first time to the general public at the Los Angeles Auto Show. The FCX Concept features a newly developed compact, high-efficiency Honda FC Stack as well as a low-floor, low-riding, short-nose body. It offers a comfortably large cabin and futuristic styling along with significant improvements in power output and environmental performance. Limited marketing of a totally new fuel cell vehicle based on this concept model is to begin in 2008 in Japan and the U.S.
Honda FCX Concept.
To meet Honda objectives for significant gains in both environmental and driving performance, the FCX Concept is equipped with a V Flow fuel cell platform consisting of a compact, high-efficiency fuel cell stack arranged in an innovative center-tunnel layout. This has allowed designers to create an elegant, low-riding, sedan form that would have been difficult to achieve in a conventional fuel cell vehicle. This new fuel cell stack is 20 percent smaller and 30 percent lighter than the current FCX FC Stack, yet its power output is 14kW greater. The drive motor has been positioned coaxially with the gearbox for a more compact design, with output increased by 15kW. Overall, the power plant is about 180kg lighter than that of the current FCX and about 40 percent smaller in volume. The result is improved energy efficiency and performance along with a more spacious interior.
While with previous fuel cell stacks the hydrogen and the water formed in electricity generation flowed horizontally, the new FCX Concept features vertical-flow design. This allows gravity to assist in discharging the water that is produced, resulting in a major improvement in water drainage, key to high-efficiency fuel stack performance. The result is stable power generation under a broad range of conditions, and higher output from a smaller package. Low-temperature startup has also been significantly improved, enabling cold-weather starts at temperatures 10ºC lower than the current FCX - as low as minus 30ºC.
As an auxiliary power source, the FCX Concept carries a compact, high-efficiency lithium ion battery, contributing to increased power output and a more compact power plant. These efficiency improvements to major power plant components give the vehicle a travel range approximately 30 percent greater than the current FCX. The vehicle is also highly efficient, with an energy efficiency of around 60 percent -- approximately three times that of a gasoline-engine vehicle, twice that of a hybrid vehicle, and 10 percent better than the current FCX.
Other features include seat upholstery and door linings made from Honda Bio-Fabric, a plant-based material that offers outstanding durability and resistance to sunlight damage. Other improvements such as Shift-by-Wire and a newly designed instrument panel with easy-to-read display of hydrogen fuel consumption facilitate improved ease of operation.
The new fuel cell vehicle currently under development for release in 2008, will feature the principle technologies of the FCX Concept to achieve a new dimension in environmentally friendly driving pleasure not found with gasoline-engine vehicles
From an old Honda Press Release available freely for World Wide Distribution - and still worth a read .
--world.honda.com/news/2006/4061129LAShowFCXConcept/
Add this ; http://
Honda FCX Concept on Display at Los Angeles Auto Show
Fully functional next-generation fuel cell vehicle makes first public debut in U.S.
LOS ANGELES, Calif, U.S.A., November 29, 2006 – A fully-functional Honda FCX Concept vehicle will be on display for the first time to the general public at the Los Angeles Auto Show. The FCX Concept features a newly developed compact, high-efficiency Honda FC Stack as well as a low-floor, low-riding, short-nose body. It offers a comfortably large cabin and futuristic styling along with significant improvements in power output and environmental performance. Limited marketing of a totally new fuel cell vehicle based on this concept model is to begin in 2008 in Japan and the U.S.
Honda FCX Concept.
To meet Honda objectives for significant gains in both environmental and driving performance, the FCX Concept is equipped with a V Flow fuel cell platform consisting of a compact, high-efficiency fuel cell stack arranged in an innovative center-tunnel layout. This has allowed designers to create an elegant, low-riding, sedan form that would have been difficult to achieve in a conventional fuel cell vehicle. This new fuel cell stack is 20 percent smaller and 30 percent lighter than the current FCX FC Stack, yet its power output is 14kW greater. The drive motor has been positioned coaxially with the gearbox for a more compact design, with output increased by 15kW. Overall, the power plant is about 180kg lighter than that of the current FCX and about 40 percent smaller in volume. The result is improved energy efficiency and performance along with a more spacious interior.
While with previous fuel cell stacks the hydrogen and the water formed in electricity generation flowed horizontally, the new FCX Concept features vertical-flow design. This allows gravity to assist in discharging the water that is produced, resulting in a major improvement in water drainage, key to high-efficiency fuel stack performance. The result is stable power generation under a broad range of conditions, and higher output from a smaller package. Low-temperature startup has also been significantly improved, enabling cold-weather starts at temperatures 10ºC lower than the current FCX - as low as minus 30ºC.
As an auxiliary power source, the FCX Concept carries a compact, high-efficiency lithium ion battery, contributing to increased power output and a more compact power plant. These efficiency improvements to major power plant components give the vehicle a travel range approximately 30 percent greater than the current FCX. The vehicle is also highly efficient, with an energy efficiency of around 60 percent -- approximately three times that of a gasoline-engine vehicle, twice that of a hybrid vehicle, and 10 percent better than the current FCX.
Other features include seat upholstery and door linings made from Honda Bio-Fabric, a plant-based material that offers outstanding durability and resistance to sunlight damage. Other improvements such as Shift-by-Wire and a newly designed instrument panel with easy-to-read display of hydrogen fuel consumption facilitate improved ease of operation.
The new fuel cell vehicle currently under development for release in 2008, will feature the principle technologies of the FCX Concept to achieve a new dimension in environmentally friendly driving pleasure not found with gasoline-engine vehicles
Last edited:
LOL! I'm with Lonnie this time (Hi Lonnie!)
It just keeps getting better .
FOR RELEASE: 2007-06-15
CONTACTS
GM Plans First Light Duty V-8 Clean Diesel for North America
High-efficiency V-8 scheduled for pickup trucks under 8,600 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight and HUMMER H2
Low emissions, high performance and excellent fuel economy
Expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement
Manufactured at the GM Powertrain Tonawanda engine plant
TONAWANDA, N.Y. – General Motors Corp. will introduce a new, state-of-the-art 4.5L V-8 Duramax turbo-diesel that improves engine fuel efficiency by 25 percent, reduces CO2 emissions by 13 percent and cuts particulates and NOx emissions by at least 90 percent for North American light duty trucks and the HUMMER H2 built after 2009.
The premium V-8 diesel is expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement while maintaining a significant fuel efficiency advantage over comparable-output gasoline engines.
The new dual-overhead cam, four-valve V-8 diesel engine will fit within the same space of a small-block V-8 gasoline engine. This compact size is made possible by using integral cylinder head exhaust manifolds, integral cam cover intake manifolds and a narrow block.
“This new GM light duty diesel is expected to become a favorite among customers who require excellent towing ability and fuel efficiency,” said Tom Stephens, group vice president, GM Global Powertrain and Quality. “It will meet the stringent 2010 emissions standards, and it will be compliant in all 50 states, making it one of the cleanest diesel vehicles ever produced.”
Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13-percent reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90-percent reduction in particulates and NOx compared to diesel vehicles today. This will be GM’s first engine to use a selective catalytic reduction NOx aftertreatment system with a diesel particulate filter to help achieve the Tier 2 Bin 5 and LEV 2 emissions standards.
Technical highlights of the engine include aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding; a variable-vane turbocharger with intercooling; a Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) block for a stronger and lighter engine base (compared to lower-strength aluminum or heavier grey cast iron); and fracture-split main bearing caps and connecting rods for a precise fit. An electronically controlled, ultra-high-pressure, common-rail fuel system is used, which has the ability to inject fuel five times per combustion event to control noise and emissions.
“This new V-8 is not only a clean diesel meeting the toughest emissions requirements in North America, it also delivers an effortless performance feel because of its high torque across the speed range,” said Charlie Freese, executive director of GM Powertrain Diesel Engineering. “It is also significantly quieter than other diesels on the road today, with noise and vibration performance approaching gasoline V-8 levels.”
Freese said the new V-8’s compact size enables it to fit in the envelope of a gasoline small-block engine, which provides GM the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand.
The premium V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque.
GM (Opel, Saab, Vauxhall and GMDAT ) currently offers 17 diesel engine variants in 45 vehicle lines around the world. GM sells more than one million diesel engines annually, with products that offer a range of choices from the 1.3L four-cylinder diesel engine sold in the Opel Agila and Corsa, up to the 6.6L V-8 Duramax diesel sold in full-size vans, heavy duty pickups and medium duty trucks in the U.S.
GM first introduced the Duramax diesel 6.6L V-8 in the U.S. in the 2001 model year and since then, customer enthusiasm for this heavy duty diesel has been outstanding. In fact, GM’s heavy duty pickup truck market share has jumped nearly tenfold in the six years that Duramax engines have been offered.
General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world’s largest automaker, has been the annual global industry sales leader for 76 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 280,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries. In 2006, nearly 9.1 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. GM’s OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com
FOR RELEASE: 2007-06-15
CONTACTS
GM Plans First Light Duty V-8 Clean Diesel for North America
High-efficiency V-8 scheduled for pickup trucks under 8,600 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight and HUMMER H2
Low emissions, high performance and excellent fuel economy
Expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement
Manufactured at the GM Powertrain Tonawanda engine plant
TONAWANDA, N.Y. – General Motors Corp. will introduce a new, state-of-the-art 4.5L V-8 Duramax turbo-diesel that improves engine fuel efficiency by 25 percent, reduces CO2 emissions by 13 percent and cuts particulates and NOx emissions by at least 90 percent for North American light duty trucks and the HUMMER H2 built after 2009.
The premium V-8 diesel is expected to deliver class-leading torque, power and refinement while maintaining a significant fuel efficiency advantage over comparable-output gasoline engines.
The new dual-overhead cam, four-valve V-8 diesel engine will fit within the same space of a small-block V-8 gasoline engine. This compact size is made possible by using integral cylinder head exhaust manifolds, integral cam cover intake manifolds and a narrow block.
“This new GM light duty diesel is expected to become a favorite among customers who require excellent towing ability and fuel efficiency,” said Tom Stephens, group vice president, GM Global Powertrain and Quality. “It will meet the stringent 2010 emissions standards, and it will be compliant in all 50 states, making it one of the cleanest diesel vehicles ever produced.”
Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13-percent reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90-percent reduction in particulates and NOx compared to diesel vehicles today. This will be GM’s first engine to use a selective catalytic reduction NOx aftertreatment system with a diesel particulate filter to help achieve the Tier 2 Bin 5 and LEV 2 emissions standards.
Technical highlights of the engine include aluminum cylinder heads with integrated manifolding; a variable-vane turbocharger with intercooling; a Compacted Graphite Iron (CGI) block for a stronger and lighter engine base (compared to lower-strength aluminum or heavier grey cast iron); and fracture-split main bearing caps and connecting rods for a precise fit. An electronically controlled, ultra-high-pressure, common-rail fuel system is used, which has the ability to inject fuel five times per combustion event to control noise and emissions.
“This new V-8 is not only a clean diesel meeting the toughest emissions requirements in North America, it also delivers an effortless performance feel because of its high torque across the speed range,” said Charlie Freese, executive director of GM Powertrain Diesel Engineering. “It is also significantly quieter than other diesels on the road today, with noise and vibration performance approaching gasoline V-8 levels.”
Freese said the new V-8’s compact size enables it to fit in the envelope of a gasoline small-block engine, which provides GM the flexibility to introduce this engine in a wide variety of vehicle applications should there be future market demand.
The premium V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque.
GM (Opel, Saab, Vauxhall and GMDAT ) currently offers 17 diesel engine variants in 45 vehicle lines around the world. GM sells more than one million diesel engines annually, with products that offer a range of choices from the 1.3L four-cylinder diesel engine sold in the Opel Agila and Corsa, up to the 6.6L V-8 Duramax diesel sold in full-size vans, heavy duty pickups and medium duty trucks in the U.S.
GM first introduced the Duramax diesel 6.6L V-8 in the U.S. in the 2001 model year and since then, customer enthusiasm for this heavy duty diesel has been outstanding. In fact, GM’s heavy duty pickup truck market share has jumped nearly tenfold in the six years that Duramax engines have been offered.
General Motors Corp. (NYSE: GM), the world’s largest automaker, has been the annual global industry sales leader for 76 years. Founded in 1908, GM today employs about 280,000 people around the world. With global headquarters in Detroit, GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries. In 2006, nearly 9.1 million GM cars and trucks were sold globally under the following brands: Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, GM Daewoo, Holden, HUMMER, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. GM’s OnStar subsidiary is the industry leader in vehicle safety, security and information services. More information on GM can be found at www.gm.com
And for you old Mopar guys
- this is what should have been here BY now ....
Experimental Chrysler 300 delivers diesel efficiency with an American twist
Warren Brown / The Washington Post
---detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070609/AUTO03/706090302/1148/AUTO01
Last three paragraphs out of fourteen total .
The 300 V-6 CRD works exceptionally well.
I drove it 325 miles from my home in Northern Virginia through the Shenandoah Valley into the central parts of Virginia and back. I averaged 41 miles per gallon on the highway driving at speeds ranging from 60 to 70 miles per hour. I had no problems accelerating in the 300 V-6 CRD. Gear changes via the five-speed automatic transmission were flawless--absent any discernible downshifting or hesitation. The diesel engine was quieter than most gasoline models, emitting only a minute burbling sound at idle. And there was no diesel smell or particulate-laden diesel smoke characteristic of old, traditional diesel technology.
The 300 V-6 CRD runs only on ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel--diesel with sulfur at 15 parts per million. Thanks to recent revisions in federal fuel-quality standards, ultra-low-sulfur diesel now is widely available in the United States. But prices vary crazily. I paid $3.35 a gallon to refill the 300 V-6 CRD's 18.7-gallon tank at a station near my home. Had I driven a mile farther, I could have paid $2.79 a gallon for exactly the same fuel.
Still, the point is made: The 300 V-6 CRD works. I suspect that the diesel-powered Smart ForTwo would work equally well. DaimlerChrysler, which soon will change its name to Daimler AG, should abandon its crippling caution and bring the diesel ForTwo to the United States this year. Cerberus should move to change its unflattering image as a strip-and-flip corporate raider by committing itself to building and selling the 300 V-6 CRD
- this is what should have been here BY now ....
Experimental Chrysler 300 delivers diesel efficiency with an American twist
Warren Brown / The Washington Post
---detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070609/AUTO03/706090302/1148/AUTO01
Last three paragraphs out of fourteen total .
The 300 V-6 CRD works exceptionally well.
I drove it 325 miles from my home in Northern Virginia through the Shenandoah Valley into the central parts of Virginia and back. I averaged 41 miles per gallon on the highway driving at speeds ranging from 60 to 70 miles per hour. I had no problems accelerating in the 300 V-6 CRD. Gear changes via the five-speed automatic transmission were flawless--absent any discernible downshifting or hesitation. The diesel engine was quieter than most gasoline models, emitting only a minute burbling sound at idle. And there was no diesel smell or particulate-laden diesel smoke characteristic of old, traditional diesel technology.
The 300 V-6 CRD runs only on ultra-low-sulfur diesel fuel--diesel with sulfur at 15 parts per million. Thanks to recent revisions in federal fuel-quality standards, ultra-low-sulfur diesel now is widely available in the United States. But prices vary crazily. I paid $3.35 a gallon to refill the 300 V-6 CRD's 18.7-gallon tank at a station near my home. Had I driven a mile farther, I could have paid $2.79 a gallon for exactly the same fuel.
Still, the point is made: The 300 V-6 CRD works. I suspect that the diesel-powered Smart ForTwo would work equally well. DaimlerChrysler, which soon will change its name to Daimler AG, should abandon its crippling caution and bring the diesel ForTwo to the United States this year. Cerberus should move to change its unflattering image as a strip-and-flip corporate raider by committing itself to building and selling the 300 V-6 CRD
And of course , how could we discuss economical fun to drive vehicles w/o mention of the Grand Daddy of them all ?
[Source: Volkswagen]To the Point: TSI Offensive
New TSI with 122 PS: Economical and Powerful
Economical: New TSI consumes six percent less fuel
Powerful: Maximum torque of 200 Nm in reserve at a low 1,500 rpm
Wolfsburg, 29 May 2007 - Maximum power with minimum fuel consumption – this characteristic has, within a very short period of time, made TSI four-cylinder engines a synonym for a new generation of economical and at the same time sporty Volkswagen engines. Performance specifications: 125 kW / 170 PS and 103 kW / 140 PS. The Golf, Golf Variant, Golf Plus, Jetta and Touran are powered by them. In 2006 and once again in 2007 they were awarded the coveted "Engine of the Year Award". Now Volkswagen is presenting the third TSI; this one is 90 kW / 122 PS strong and will be introduced to the Golf lineup this year.
The new TSI will replace the 1.6 FSI with 85 kW / 115 PS in the mid-term. Decisive advantages of the new turbo engine: Besides being able to reduce fuel consumption by about six percent, the engine's power and torque characteristics were also improved significantly. Due to its smaller displacement, vehicle taxes are also lower. Compared to the 1.6 FSI, maximum torque has now been increased by nearly 30 percent to 200 Newton-meter. And this power is already available at 1,500 rpm. In addition, 80 percent of the maximum torque is already available at speeds as low as 1,250 rpm. In the lower speed range the TSI even exhibits Newton-meter gains of up to 66 percent compared to its predecessor.
Another plus when it comes to economy: Since its maximum torque is available over a broad speed range from 1,500 to 3,500 rpm, conditions are ideal for combining the new TSI with longer and therefore fuel-saving gear ratios. That is why in the future Volkswagen is planning to pair it with the first transverse seven-speed dual clutch transmission in the world (DSG). Its debut will also be in 2007.
Key facts about the new engine at a glance:
* Utilized in models up to the Passat.
* 90 kW / 122 PS power between 5,000 and 6,400 rpm.
* 200 Nm maximum torque from 1,500 to 3,500 rpm.
* 80 percent of maximum torque starting at 1,250 rpm
* Maximum torque 30 percent greater than in the 1.6 FSI.
* 66 percent more torque at 1,500 rpm.
* Fuel consumption is about six percent lower.
* Specific torque of 144 Nm per liter.
* 16V in-line four cylinder of the EA111 engine series.
* 1,390 cm3 displacement.
* Cylinder spacing: 82 millimeters.
* Bore and stroke: 76.5 and 75.6 millimeters.
* Compression 10:1.
* Electronic gasoline direct injection.
* Electronic-map ignition with cylinder-selective anti-knock control.
* Advanced combustion process.
* New intake port without charge movement flaps.
* Turbocharger (max. 1.8 bar)
* 220,000 rpm as maximum rpm of the turbocharger.
* Electrically-controlled divert-air valve for turbocharger.
* Water-cooled charge air in intake port.
* Fuel: Super unleaded (95 ROZ).
* Reduced friction losses.
* Total engine weight per DIN: 131 kilograms.
Note:
All data and equipment contained in this press release apply to models offered in Germany. They may differ in other countries. All information is subject to change or correction.
TDI, TSI, DSG and Twincharger are registered trademarks of Volkswagen AG or other companies of the Volkswagen Group in Germany and other countries.
More info at ;--.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/29/volkswagen-offers-up-new-details-on-1-4l-tsi-engine/
[Source: Volkswagen]To the Point: TSI Offensive
New TSI with 122 PS: Economical and Powerful
Economical: New TSI consumes six percent less fuel
Powerful: Maximum torque of 200 Nm in reserve at a low 1,500 rpm
Wolfsburg, 29 May 2007 - Maximum power with minimum fuel consumption – this characteristic has, within a very short period of time, made TSI four-cylinder engines a synonym for a new generation of economical and at the same time sporty Volkswagen engines. Performance specifications: 125 kW / 170 PS and 103 kW / 140 PS. The Golf, Golf Variant, Golf Plus, Jetta and Touran are powered by them. In 2006 and once again in 2007 they were awarded the coveted "Engine of the Year Award". Now Volkswagen is presenting the third TSI; this one is 90 kW / 122 PS strong and will be introduced to the Golf lineup this year.
The new TSI will replace the 1.6 FSI with 85 kW / 115 PS in the mid-term. Decisive advantages of the new turbo engine: Besides being able to reduce fuel consumption by about six percent, the engine's power and torque characteristics were also improved significantly. Due to its smaller displacement, vehicle taxes are also lower. Compared to the 1.6 FSI, maximum torque has now been increased by nearly 30 percent to 200 Newton-meter. And this power is already available at 1,500 rpm. In addition, 80 percent of the maximum torque is already available at speeds as low as 1,250 rpm. In the lower speed range the TSI even exhibits Newton-meter gains of up to 66 percent compared to its predecessor.
Another plus when it comes to economy: Since its maximum torque is available over a broad speed range from 1,500 to 3,500 rpm, conditions are ideal for combining the new TSI with longer and therefore fuel-saving gear ratios. That is why in the future Volkswagen is planning to pair it with the first transverse seven-speed dual clutch transmission in the world (DSG). Its debut will also be in 2007.
Key facts about the new engine at a glance:
* Utilized in models up to the Passat.
* 90 kW / 122 PS power between 5,000 and 6,400 rpm.
* 200 Nm maximum torque from 1,500 to 3,500 rpm.
* 80 percent of maximum torque starting at 1,250 rpm
* Maximum torque 30 percent greater than in the 1.6 FSI.
* 66 percent more torque at 1,500 rpm.
* Fuel consumption is about six percent lower.
* Specific torque of 144 Nm per liter.
* 16V in-line four cylinder of the EA111 engine series.
* 1,390 cm3 displacement.
* Cylinder spacing: 82 millimeters.
* Bore and stroke: 76.5 and 75.6 millimeters.
* Compression 10:1.
* Electronic gasoline direct injection.
* Electronic-map ignition with cylinder-selective anti-knock control.
* Advanced combustion process.
* New intake port without charge movement flaps.
* Turbocharger (max. 1.8 bar)
* 220,000 rpm as maximum rpm of the turbocharger.
* Electrically-controlled divert-air valve for turbocharger.
* Water-cooled charge air in intake port.
* Fuel: Super unleaded (95 ROZ).
* Reduced friction losses.
* Total engine weight per DIN: 131 kilograms.
Note:
All data and equipment contained in this press release apply to models offered in Germany. They may differ in other countries. All information is subject to change or correction.
TDI, TSI, DSG and Twincharger are registered trademarks of Volkswagen AG or other companies of the Volkswagen Group in Germany and other countries.
More info at ;--.autobloggreen.com/2007/05/29/volkswagen-offers-up-new-details-on-1-4l-tsi-engine/
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I'm sure nobody will make the claim that the prius is an unreliable vehicle. We all know better than that. But it certainly doesn't suit me (too expensive and weird looking) and none of the other hybrids are worth getting imo. I don't know how to fix regenerative braking systems, strange dual motor setups, etc. I can fix diesels most of the time and the fuel economy should be similar. For me its a no brainer. Bring on the diesels! I would consider a diesel hybrid though because the ridiculous mpg would outweigh my hybrid reluctance.
Hello Quest out in beaver land.
Owning a Prius means you will have to lay down form some dealer only service, but it won't be much. We've had some cars go to 200k before being rotated out and not one unscheduled maintenance. The independent shops are catching on, and they along with some of our maintenance facilities are adding the tools and skills to do everything on the Prius. It's going to be interesting to see how the hybrid technology ages and grows. And I've got say, we have a half dozen new Mercedes diesel cars ant they are great. I've driven two of them and the torque just feels good. I like many of you worry that the add on stuff required for these new vehicles, hybrids and diesels alike is going to force diy people to go to mechanics and dealers more often than we would like.
Owning a Prius means you will have to lay down form some dealer only service, but it won't be much. We've had some cars go to 200k before being rotated out and not one unscheduled maintenance. The independent shops are catching on, and they along with some of our maintenance facilities are adding the tools and skills to do everything on the Prius. It's going to be interesting to see how the hybrid technology ages and grows. And I've got say, we have a half dozen new Mercedes diesel cars ant they are great. I've driven two of them and the torque just feels good. I like many of you worry that the add on stuff required for these new vehicles, hybrids and diesels alike is going to force diy people to go to mechanics and dealers more often than we would like.
Diesels appeal to the do it yourselfer, especially one who's handy with chemicals, and friendly with a few local restaurants.
oilyriser,
that they do.
'cept now the in line Bosch pumps have been replaced with axial pumps who are incredibly sensitive to fuel viscosity.
Almost has me trading in my TDI Nissan, and reverting back a decade and a half for something that will run SVO at a pinch, and be remotely serviceable.
that they do.
'cept now the in line Bosch pumps have been replaced with axial pumps who are incredibly sensitive to fuel viscosity.
Almost has me trading in my TDI Nissan, and reverting back a decade and a half for something that will run SVO at a pinch, and be remotely serviceable.
Hi.
I see that someone think that Toyota isn't prepared for the diesel-boom. They probably don't know tht Toyota have been selling an increasing number of diesel-vehicles here in Europe. They have some of the best diesel engines on the market. Relax, Toyota is coming with diesels, even in the US.
I see that someone think that Toyota isn't prepared for the diesel-boom. They probably don't know tht Toyota have been selling an increasing number of diesel-vehicles here in Europe. They have some of the best diesel engines on the market. Relax, Toyota is coming with diesels, even in the US.
That's baloney. A Prius (and the other HSD cars) has a transmission that's roughly as simple as a RWD car/truck's differential. No alternator. No starter. Gas engine is just as simple/complex as any other, and so on.
So, why don't you disclose the basis for your intense, and irrational, anti-hybrid bias.
Newsflash: excessive use of the
Please do report back when some of these things you're trumpeting actually happen. Thusfar, Toyota is has had success in actual reality. As far as I'm concerned, you're just writing fiction, nothing more.
Diesels will come, eventually. And unless they come with some form of hybrid system, their brakes will continue throw away huge amounts of usable power -- something my Prius doesn't do...
EDIT:
1) I've yet to have a problem of any sort with the on-line manual at techinfo.toyota.com .
2) The Prius has been on the road since 2001 (earlier in Japan). Where are all the Prii dying from that awful complexity.
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