reThousands Turn Out For Wal-Mart Jobs

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: tom slick

the issue isn't with the employees, everyone needs to work, it's the fact that taxpayers pay the health insurance for the world's wealthiest corporation. somehow companies that sell similar goods at similar prices are able to provide better benefits.


Ummm.. Did I miss something here? Where did you get that idea?

 

[Gary Allan]

What many of you appear to rationalize here is a "for profit" company leveraging its advantage in the market place with "unauthorized" public money. Every person who rolls out of the place with their cart load of plastic stuff (by the ton) is paying a bill outside of the cash register that they're not informed about on the ticket. They're paying that in their local, state, and federal tax bill.

Now if Walmart wants to put on an ad campaign that bolsters the notion that they're driving competitors out of business with the help of your tax dollar and actually making it a better deal than not being there, then fine. Get your government officials to agree and make it an above board disclosure that it's a lower income jobs program ...etc...etc..etc.


..but I think I'm seeing the true value here ..finally. Certain forms of "redistribution of (cough-cough) wealth" (a relative term) are okay if you can show a "That'll get the bums off of welfare!!!" component to it. It's better if you bill people for the welfare program ..but don't let them know they're paying it.

It's for the best, really. Making a profit on this otherwise selfless and noble action is totally justifiable and well "deserved" ..in fact, I'd almost call it an entitlement. Heck, it's almost a neo-American tradition.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Well Gary, that's a little too deep for me. I belong to the faction that believes that all taxes are paid by the retail consumer. Every one else is just the tax collector.

 

[Gary Allan]

All taxes are paid by earners. Business (among a number of actual taxing entities) merely collects them. Most are honest and forthright about the fact that you're paying a tax. They don't hide the fact that they're taking your money. They may mask local taxes in water&sewer bills ..etc..etc. But you know when you write your check who it's really going to.

So, you're okay with a "jobs program" as long as there's a profit to be made? I'm glad to see that a more socially conscious attitude is being adopted by some. I see that it only takes the right packaging to get it to work. I'll just consider it outsourcing in another dimension. Outsourced manufacturing ..and sold through outsourced social services.

For the good of the rabble ...shop s'mart ...shop S-Mart (Bruce Campbell)

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

"All taxes are paid by earners"
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Wrong, company pays match as payroll expense.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Everybody should just work for the government. Thay pay a decent wage and good benefits.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Everybody should just work for the government. Thay pay a decent wage and good benefits.


We're going to get there sooner then you think.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

OMG if more taxes are good, then all taxes must be the best! Just hand over all your money and possessions to the government and all will be well.

Free Amsoil for everybody!

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

I can't comment on that. To political....

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
"All taxes are paid by earners"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wrong, company pays match as payroll expense.


Errr ..and they pull this money out of thin air? You don't pay this in one form or another ..either in reduced wages or the cost of their goods and/or services? I would think any money conscious hard core capitalist would surely welcome the notion that businesses don't pay taxes ..but merely collect them. If you're correct, then let's BANG THEM VERY HARD so that we can live tax free.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Gary, there is obviously a difference in a payroll tax that's deducted from an employees gross wage and one that's paid out of a corporate treasury.

We can live tax free as long as we don't leave the cardbaord box by the riverside that serves as our residence. Even the caves that we will live in down the road will have an onerous tax associated with them.

 

[jmac]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
Gary, there is obviously a difference in a payroll tax that's deducted from an employees gross wage and one that's paid out of a corporate treasury.

We can live tax free as long as we don't leave the cardbaord box by the riverside that serves as our residence. Even the caves that we will live in down the road will have an onerous tax associated with them.


And where does the money come from in the corporate treasury? (rhetorical) Why from the price on goods and services. And who buys the goods and services? the earners of course. So whether it is a direct tax on income or an indirect tax on goods and services, all taxes are paid for by earners and none by business.

Good one on the cardboard box.

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

As long as we are deep into economic theory, where does my monthly SS check come from? I mean, from my 50+ years of paying in to the system, or from everyones paying into the system. When I spend my SS $, am I helping others to be earners, or am I mearly recycling the govmnts money so that others can pay their taxes? Or both? Or something else entirely?

 

[levi]

And where does the money come from in the corporate treasury? (rhetorical) Why from the price on goods and services. And who buys the goods and services? the earners of course. So whether it is a direct tax on income or an indirect tax on goods and services, all taxes are paid for by earners and none by business.

Ditto. Businesses do not pay taxes. Only individuals do.

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
As long as we are deep into economic theory, where does my monthly SS check come from? I mean, from my 50+ years of paying in to the system, or from everyones paying into the system. When I spend my SS $, am I helping others to be earners, or am I mearly recycling the govmnts money so that others can pay their taxes? Or both? Or something else entirely?


I like to say that 15.3% of the work I do this week, is a good or service helping a retired person on SS, right now. As a society we trade money for goods right now. Hopefully society will see fit to give me the same level of service when I retire.

The premise that a generation can "save" this actual work through investing or whatever, and have the next generation provide "extra good" services, is malarky.

 

[JHZR2]

right... its like the NJ turnpike toll increase. Upping tolls will fatten the treasury (in theory), but then again, the trucking companies will have to increase rates, making goods more expensive, inducing folks into demanding higher wages, causing everything to go up again... and then when we shop for cut-rate goods, at places which pay cut-rate gages, in areas where cut-rate wages just don't keep the bills paid... then what happens and where does the money come from????

Everything is always pulling from one pocket to put something into the other. Its true value is suspect.

JMH

 

[Gary Allan]

This ties into the myth of "creation of wealth". The local township next door wanted to put in some gambling casino. The taxes were supposed to aid education. I argued that it didn't "create revenue", but merely reallocated/refocused it to a collection point. Some pizza jock wasn't going to get a tip due to that cash being funneled into the state's coffers.

This is why a WM or a Nissan auto plant doesn't do a darn thing in net gains if you're in a declining economic environment.

Some very educated people that make a whole lot more than I do and allegedly are very savvy in such matters have the total incapability of seeing.

 

[ALS]

What is interesting about Walmart is when they build a shopping center to go along with the store. With in a month or two every store room in that center is filled with other businesses.
Walmart is a magnet for people and other businesses are not stupid. I've seen centers where Walmart moved out to build a bigger center down the street almost every business in the old center goes under. While neighbors with the Walmart they were all running along fat and happy with the money they were making feeding off the Walmart customers.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
As long as we are deep into economic theory, where does my monthly SS check come from? I mean, from my 50+ years of paying in to the system, or from everyones paying into the system. When I spend my SS $, am I helping others to be earners, or am I mearly recycling the govmnts money so that others can pay their taxes? Or both? Or something else entirely?


Well since the federal government probably already spent the $$$ that you paid in to SS years ago, probably as soon as they got it, you are getting money that is being paid into the system right now.

The SS "trust fund" is really just a "show box" full of IOU's from the federal government.

So the government owes itself this money, and is paying benefits with money that is arriving right now.

Pretty soon, even these IOUs will be exhausted as the number of citizens getting benefits will be greater than the taxes collected from current wage earners.

So by the time I retire, it's unlikely I'll seem much if anything from what I've paid into SS.

 

[Gary Allan]

The whole concept of the "notes" was to buffer your contributions against inflation. What does our government do? They spend money and to keep the trains on time they "borrow" money. If they put SS contributions into an account, while borrowing money with the issuance of government securities, just what would be the point? It's like having a ZERO interest bank account while using a credit card to run your life. The accepted (sorta) sensible view is that "we're not borrowing as much and therefore social security contributions are protected in avoided costs".

What it came down to is "Oh, you're willing to allow me to spend your money ...enable me to even borrow MORE ..in all manners and methods that I can figure ..on my "promise"?? Thank you very very much.