Results -- Mobil1 Tri-Synthetic 5w30 in 2000 Integra Type-R

[jond]

BlackStone Lab Results:
Car: 2000 ITR 36,000 miles.
Oil: Mobil1 Tri-Synthetic 5w30. 3000 miles of hard driving(redline at least twice a day).

Aluminum(Pistons, bearings, cases)-- 4 (6)
chromium(Rings)-- 1 (4)
iron(Cylinders, rotating shafts, valve train)-- 7 (18)
copper(brass or bronze parts, copper bushings, bearings, oil collers, oil additive)-- 9 (7)
lead(bearings)-- 11 (13)
tin(bearings, piston coatings)-- 1 (1)
molybdenum(anti-wear additive, some types of rings)-- 66 (62)
nickel(element of steel)-- 0 (0)
manganese(additive in gas)-- 0 (1)
silver(trace element)-- 0 (0)
titanium(trace element)-- 0 (0)
potassium(antifreeze inhibitor, additive in some oils)-- 0 (0)
boron(detergent additive)-- 107 (27)
silicon(airborne dirt, sealers, gaskets)-- 45 (15)
sodium(antifreeze, additive in some gas)-- 3 (11)
calcium(detergent additive)-- 2147 (1464)
magnesium(detergent additive)-- 66 (568)
phosphorus(anti-wear additive)-- 763 (752)
zinc(anti-wear additive)-- 924 (887)
barium(detergent)-- 1 (0)

 

[jond]

I think the high amount of silicon is because I had engine work done right before this oil change. They had to replace my oil pump and timming belt.

 

[Patman]

Looks like some pretty good wear numbers for a hard driven car! I wonder where the moly comes from? I don't usually see that with Mobil 1 TriSynth.

Also, why does Blackstone leave out such important info like oxidation and viscosity? It's hard to tell how much life the oil had left. I also hate that Blackstone charges extra for TBN, which is also a vital number.

 

[jond]

Opps. They did give the following:

SUS Viscosity-- 55.6
Flashpoint-- 420
Fuel-- Antifreeze-- 0.0
Water-- 0.0
Insolubles-- 0.4

 

[jond]

quote:

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I wonder where the moly comes from?

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I'm pretty sure Acura coated the cylinder walls of the Integre Type-R and NSX with molybdenum since they rev so high(8,400rpm).
If thats the case, I wonder if it will wear off eventually?

 

[Patman]

Yikes, that 55.6 works out to 9.05cst at 100c, so it thinned out to a 5w20 weight oil! That seems pretty typical of Mobil 1 5w30 though, I don't think I've seen an oil analysis yet where this oil hasn't thinned out that much.

 

[jond]

quote:

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Yikes

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!!! Okay help me out here, I'm new to this. Whats the formula to take the Viscosity and get the oil weight?

Another question... would starting with a 10w30 keep my Viscosity more in line?

Also, what things cause a oil to lose Viscosity?

[ July 25, 2002, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: jond ]

 

[Patman]

Yes, starting with a 10w30 would most likely keep the viscosity more stable, since the 10w30 would contain little or no VI improvers to break down. That oil lost it's viscosity because the VI improvers broke down under stress, causing the oil to thin out.

I converted that viscosity rating to cst at 100c by taking that 55.6 sus at 212F number and plugging it into this formula:

0.226 x 55.6-195/55.6=9.05

In order for an oil to qualify as a 30 weight, it's viscosity at 100c must be between 9.3 to 12.5 cst at 100c. So at 9.05 it now dips down to the 20 weight category. As a comparison, my last oil interval with 10w30 Maxlife, with 2300 miles of hard driving, showed a viscosity of 11.4 at 100c, so it held it's viscosity well in the 30weight range.

So for the type of hard driving that you do, I highly recommend going with a 10w30. Also of note, if you look at the specs on oils, they will show you their initial viscosity at 100c. Mobil 1 is already on the thinner side of a 30 weight, with their 10w30 being 9.8cst at 100c, and the 5w30 at 9.7. So ideally you want something that is closer to the high end of the scale, in the 11 to 12 range.

 

[Al]

10W-30 will probably hold up beter. I don't really drive that hard but my 2.0 Sentra was 9.8 cSt. and my son's GrandAm was 10.8 cSt. with 5K and 6 K respectively. Something's wrong with the Magnesium Additive. It is in the 1500 to 1800 with the 10W-30 - Interesting. Mine was the SJ-could it be that big a difference, or is it the 10W-30 is different from the 5W, or is it that Blackstone screwed up???

 

[Spector]

In reality thouoh the numbers are very good. The silicon is high but that coupled with a very low iron count indicates that the silicon is not dirt causing wear it is either an additive or seal material. Higher wear metals like iron coupled with silicon is an indicator of a problem. You do not have that. So even though the oil seemed to drop to a 20 weight there was no indication of that causing a problem.

 

[Bror Jace]

Spector, that's a good point about the silicon and iron. My first thought was that there might be a leak in the intake system.

Jond, do you have an aftermarket intake? Care to describe it?

I saw your results on the Honda-Tech board but it was too late in the evening for me to comment on them.

About the molybdenum, it shows it as matching the universal average ... which may be for other Type-Rs. Why don't you ask Blackstone about these 'averages' and see what type of car/engine they describe?

molybdenum from rings usually shows up in amounts from 5 to 15ppm.

After my experience with Mobil 1 and Hondas, I expected to see more aluminum but I think you're right about the moly coating applied to the metal parts (cylinder liners) by the factory. My fear (for your motor) is that the moly will rub off completely and then the aluminum wear will begin.

Of course, using an oil with molybdenum in it may help to replenish the factory moly coating ... or may delay its demise.

 

[jond]

quote:

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Jond, do you have an aftermarket intake? Care to describe it?

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I heading out the door so I cant answer everything, but no aftermarket anything. Its 100% stock. It did just get engine work though and so maby the new valve cover gasket or oil pump gasket casued the numbers?

 

[Chris J.]

I had a 99' Civic Si(R) (Si, here in the states. SiR in Canada) and it used the B16A2 motor. The pistons, and I think cylinder walls were coated in molybdenum as well as the camshafts. Honda did this to increase the reliability of the B-series DOHC VTEC motors and in doing so, created a darn good and reliable motor!

The motor almost had to have it as the B16A2 motor has piston speeds higher than any car on the market and close to those in an F1 engine. Dont believe me? Fine. Do some research and youll see why-physics.

Now, here my take on using Mobil 1 5w-30 on it as i used it on mine. The B16A2 motor makes 160hp and revs to 8000rpms to do so. VTEC doesnt engage until 5600-5700rpms (depending upon the version you have) and in doing so the engine must be driven hard to go-and i did that frequently. Also, from what I have heard from those who were in the 'know' about Honda engines, VTEC engagement can cause more oil consumption-at an alarming rate. Not to mention the high rpms and hard driving combined to break down the viscosity even more quickly.

Over the course of 5K miles, there would be up to 2qts. missing that I would have to replinish! The mobil 1 5w-30 broke down way to quickly for me and I 'swore it off', as the old saying goes. Although, I did have better luck w/ 10w-30 though. Im of the mind now that, if I were to own another B-series Honda motor or another high revving 4,6 or 8 cylinder again, the only mobil 1 id ever use would be 0w-40, the new european formula.

Mobil claims that it can be used in engines requiring a 5w-30 oil so......but as of right now, Castrol Syntec is too cheap not to use in 10w-30 format. I can get it for $15.50 for 5/qts! Not bad at all, and it IS a good oil! Just mis-labled like MolaKule says!

 

[jason07-1zzfe]

SL or SJ?

Looks like SL to me