Residential Real Estate Development in an AE Flood Zone?

[LoneRanger]

Yeah, we passed on the house we were looking at. It was built 2008 and had been taken off the flood list because lowest spot of it's lot was 0.9 ft above the flood elevation. 9/10 of a foot don't sound like much margin for error, especially considering the torrential rains we get anymore. There is a red zone (i.e. floodway) that's around a small creek maybe a mile or two away.

 

[ragtoplvr]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
I am sick of my tax dollars being spent to subsidize flood insurance so people can make bad decisions about where to live. It also bails out wealthy who build beach mansions and enable developers to make a fortune building where they should not build. In addition developers must be required to set up stormwater diversion ponds, so their development does not cause problems down stream from the additional runoff.

I live in the Midwest, they do not subsidize my homeowners to compensate for the hail storms and tornados around here.

Yes, when we have a disaster here Fema comes in and helps. They set up temporary housing until folks move away or developers catch up with the rebuilding. Something like that can stay, because it helps with the recovery, but does not encourage rebuilding in flood zones.

Basically flood insurance needs to bail out a location once, after that if it is rebuilt, they can not get the federal flood insurance for that location ever again. If they can buy private flood insurance good for them. Otherwise the next flood is on them. If that means some river/beach towns are going to die out, or all the houses will be on stilts, so be it.

Rod
Without that land to build on, housing prices skyrocket. We have significant greenspace here in the Greater Toronto Area that you cannot build on and that's one of the reasons housing is so pricey here. It's easy to say "stop building houses" when you own your own house, and stand to benefit from a rise in property values. That's what every baby boomer who has had their house triple in value in the last fifteen years says.

You can't have millions emigrate each year without a place to put them.

There is no shortage of land in Canada. There is a shortage of land around Toronto. So, the correct solution is encourage businesses locate away from Toronto and or more high rise apartment buildings.

Rod

 

[Pew]

Minus everything what everybody else said, do you think you can handle being one of those people on the TV news channels being interviewed about what happened to your home after it was demolished by a flood.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
There is no shortage of land in Canada. There is a shortage of land around Toronto. So, the correct solution is encourage businesses locate away from Toronto and or more high rise apartment buildings.

Rod
We don't have the infrastructure for that and Ontario has a ton of debt. High housing prices + poor condition roads = overpopulated.

 

[andyd]

The sole surviving beach front house in Mexico Beach FL is a storm hardened. stilt house. All the flotsam you see around it was once built to code. Buyer beware.

 

[alarmguy]

You can always find an excuse not to buy a house ...

Originally Posted by alarmguy
If these communities were developed in the last ten years or so you would be in great shape to buy into those communities.

You will NOT need flood insurance as the homes are above the 100 year flood maps (according to your post) and chances are will never ever see anything even threatening as to a flood in your lifetime.

Buying to a new community is normally a safe bet if your concerned about flooding, new computer models of how the community drainage is developed ect is top notch.


^^^^^ I repeat my own quote above ^^^^^ )

and I add ...

You can always find an excuse not to buy a house, you can always find a news story to find an excuse to not buy a house, you can always find an opinion to not buy a house.
Trust me, somewhere in a H-U-G-E country from sea to shining sea, with well over 300 MILLION people, you will find a new catastrophic story to give you an excuse to not buy a house.
You will always be able to find an exception to a rule to not buy a house and there will always be a natural disaster someplace but again, if your buying a home in a new community and not required to have flood insurance you cant ask for more, if that is your concern, modern science, computer models are far more advanced for handling drainage issues.

 

[MNgopher]

And I'll say it again, as the guy who does stormwater modeling for a living: If you believe that "computer models are far more advanced for handling drainage issues" is going to be your security blanket, your faith is misplaced.

I'll often say the best deal is to protect someone from the 99 year event. In that case, they will be required to buy flood insurance with a mortgage - so the consumer is actually aware of the risk. The reality is in many parts of the country, you can buy a property one foot horizontally over from the floodplain, 0.1 feet above the 100 year flood elevation, and not have to purchase flood insurance.

What happens when rainfall is greater than what we assume for the models? (In 20 years, I've dealt with 5 different greater than 100 year rainfall events for various clients - two that based on the same statistics are "1000-year events") What happens when the storm drain gets plugged with debris? The bridge with debris that was unanticipated? Or if its a windy day and it creates waves on the water?

If the choice is between the house that is barely out of the floodplain (and is even mapped as being at as of now) and a home that isn't in the floodplain and is several feet above it, guess which one I'd choose every time...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
You can always find an excuse not to buy a house ...

Originally Posted by alarmguy
If these communities were developed in the last ten years or so you would be in great shape to buy into those communities.

You will NOT need flood insurance as the homes are above the 100 year flood maps (according to your post) and chances are will never ever see anything even threatening as to a flood in your lifetime.

Buying to a new community is normally a safe bet if your concerned about flooding, new computer models of how the community drainage is developed ect is top notch.


^^^^^ I repeat my own quote above ^^^^^ )

and I add ...

You can always find an excuse not to buy a house, you can always find a news story to find an excuse to not buy a house, you can always find an opinion to not buy a house.
Trust me, somewhere in a H-U-G-E country from sea to shining sea, with well over 300 MILLION people, you will find a new catastrophic story to give you an excuse to not buy a house.
You will always be able to find an exception to a rule to not buy a house and there will always be a natural disaster someplace but again, if your buying a home in a new community and not required to have flood insurance you cant ask for more, if that is your concern, modern science, computer models are far more advanced for handling drainage issues.

Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT?

 

[alarmguy]

[/quote]
Are you attempting to stumble upon a POINT?[/quote]

Finally, some one gets it ... )

 

[fdcg27]

Building in flood plains is nothing new and the developers are concerned only about monetizing their land investment by building something on the land and selling it.
Weather and climate are not the same thing. You might roll the dice a hundred times and come up with no flooding but at some point the real climate will assert itself and your house could be a sodden ruin.
Best advice would be to avoid buying in a flood plain.

 

[LoneRanger]

in case it's been conjectured that we're looking for an out against becoming home owners, that is an extremely errant assumption. We own two houses. Hers and mine. I also own a small condo in town that I bought in 2015. None are in a flood zone on the fema map. We're looking for a house to call "our own", since me moving into hers or her into mine neither of those options would feel "right" for launching the marriage i.e. we want a place new to us to make "ours."

We liked the flood plain house, it's features and size checked most of our boxes but I'm glad the realtor lied to us about the field behind it. She had said we'd always have that open view of the east for sunrises over the farm field because it could never be developed on account of being in a flood plain. I always verify. I strolled down the county building commission's office and they contradicted what the Realtor said and further pointed out that the very house we looked at was within the same flood plain, but had been removed by a letter from fema because the developer petitioned fema and got the houses exempted or whatever on account of having raised the lots with fill-- imported dirt when developing I guess. Went so far as to look on the fema letter at that exact lot number in the subdivision that the house is on and it showed Flood Elevation @ 385' and lot elevation @ 385.9' So based on all that we decided to pass on the home. Too bad, since it met all the features we wanted and the price was right, and it was in very nice condition.

 

[ragtoplvr]

Just as a general rule, I would pass on any house where they did fill to raise the lot. The contractors almost never put in the compaction work necessary, wait for a lot of rain, and then compact more. You almost always have settling problems. I warned a co worker about this and he ignored me.. His house settled, foundation has many cracks, doors bind. Sidewalk and drive have cracks and one has almost an inch elevation difference. The fill had lots of rocks, so garden is out and frost is heaving rocks up to the surface. Contractor has dissolved that company, moved on to another town to make more money. Limted liability company baby. He is out lots of money and has a house that will be difficult to sell.

Rod

 

[alarmguy]

We all live in different parts of the USA, so how one makes a post and how its read can be different, never was any intention by me to suggest you were looking for an "out" .... it was an expression to emphasize a point and would have sounded different coming from someone rather then a post in a forum. I was trying to make you feel at ease, and honestly, some of this stuff I type first thing in the morning *L* ... look at it later and can understand my post may sound not as intended.

One thing for SURE, NEVER, NEVER EVER believe ANYTHING a real estate agent tells you regarding open land that will always be there ect, ect .. which you know and confirmed.
Unless you own the land, take for granted that one day it will get developed. Unless you can, for yourself determine its nature preserve or creek running through it or whatever you think would make it too costly for someone to want to develop.

Yes, A LOT of people, even here in my area think woods in the yards of the homes they are buying always going to be there, until a builder comes along and puts a couple hundred homes up. *L*

Sorry if my post sounded rash?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Naah, just trollish.

 

[opus1]

Originally Posted by alarmguy
...One thing for SURE, NEVER, NEVER EVER believe ANYTHING a real estate agent tells you regarding open land that will always be there ect, ect .. which you know and confirmed.
Unless you own the land, take for granted that one day it will get developed. Unless you can, for yourself determine its nature preserve or creek running through it or whatever you think would make it too costly for someone to want to develop.

Yes, A LOT of people, even here in my area think woods in the yards of the homes they are buying always going to be there, until a builder comes along and puts a couple hundred homes up. *L*

Sorry if my post sounded rash?


Not to me - spot-on IMHO. And even if you do own the land, someone may decide they need to develop it and next thing you know, eminent domain comes knocking at your door.

 

[LoneRanger]

Originally Posted by opus1


Not to me - spot-on IMHO. And even if you do own the land, someone may decide they need to develop it and next thing you know, eminent domain comes knocking at your door.



Ah, you mean Theft by the local government. Oh they pay you "fair market" price, but it still gets taken from you by governmental force, however polite they are about it.