Replacement Windows

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Al

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Jun 8, 2002
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Elizabethtown, Pa
I'm gonna do my own. Looks pretty straight forward. I am removing the old double hung sashes inside stops and track and install new.

Questions:

The replacement frame is 35.5 wide and 37.5 high (some though appear to be 35.5 high.) It looks like some replacement frames go in at an angle so you don't have to remove the still?

Anyone have any tips on the job?

Not sure which windows to buy yet. Any suggestions?? Thinking of Pella Low E Glass.

Job looks pretty simple.

Thanks.
 
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I used Pella windows bought from Lowes several years ago. Still makes a world of difference....

Start by buying 1 window and install it. Learn what tools you need to make the installs efficient. I averaged 1 window per hour not including the final painting after the trim was replaced and caulked.
 
As an old house nut, my initial thought are "fix up the double-hung windows". If you're looking for better insulation, you can always build your own storm windows easily enough (or have them made).

In lieu of that, the easiest way is to buy sash kits. Loewen makes a custom sash kit which just goes in the original frame (I'm sure other companies do as well). You can get them in fir, fir clad or vinyl.

It may cost a little more on the windows, but you'll save on interior and exterior trim, as all of that is left in place. You just pull out the parting bead and sash stop and install spring-loaded sashes.

Before you rip out your old windows, what about them don't you like?
 
I have installed a number of new windows.....low E, argon filled, and now a few triple glass windows. Using a infrared gun and measuring the inside glass temperature, I got the following results:

Inside temp 68, 0utside -20 f.

Ordinary window with storm: 50 degrees

Ordinary window, triple glass 58 degrees\

Low E, argon filled 62 degrees

Low E "double sputtered
soft coat", argon 64 degrees

Low E, "double sputtered
soft coat, TRIPLE glass 66 degrees

OK, too much data but here are my thoughts:

All good windows use vinyl seals, any window with felt, cloth, any kind of fuzz for a seal should not be considered.

Install the window using window foam, fiberglass just filters the air blowing around the window and does not seal it.

I have purchased different brands (Plygem, Andersen and Pella) for different applications and sizes, only the Pella disappoints me.

The Pella is a triple casement, one casement/window is clearly manufactured wrong, the hinges are farther out on that section resulting in the window not closing tight. Indeed, the snow can blow right in through that section. After realizing that I had installed a clearly defective window I called the Pella Window Store where I had purchased it and was shocked to learn that:

No warranty, since my contractor was not "authorized". Now they had recommended him, but they said I had asked for "recommendations", not for "authorized" installers.

Then, they said it was "installed wrong" although the window is prehung in the frame, and the hinges are clearly not milled in nearly as far as the other two sections that work well. Simple geometry tells you that you cannot effect this by installing it, right or wrong. A large local contractor told me that he liked Pella windows, but the quality control was VERY spotty, so do not take any window without very careful inspection of how well it works and seals.

My Andersons and Plygems are great,,,,, Anderson is clearly a high quality window and you cannot feel the outside temperature at all, even in a strong wind.

I gave up on the Pella, since I had a snowdrift on the ledge inside my house, blowing through the poor section. I caulked this section shut and just use the other two for venilation.
Someday I hope to remove the bad section, use my dremel tool and drill and fill the frame until it closes properly.
This window cost $1,000, the quality is about the same as a $50 chicken house window.
 
I changed all the windows in our house last year. It's a late 50's ranch style house. I was going to do them myself with my contractor that was doing our home remodel. I looked at the Pella's at Lowes and a few others. I ended up going to Window World. I got vinyl, double hung, double low E glass, with Argon.

I had Window World install them. they pulled out and replaced 12 windows. Total cost was $3900, and with the govt. credit being offered last year I got $1300 of the cost back. Also, since I had them install them they came with a no fault lifetime warranty. If I end up throwing a rock through our front bay window with the lawnmower I just call and give them the number from the pane that got busted. They bring out another switch it out at no charge. For a total of $2600 in the windows I'm glad I didn't go through the hassle of soing them myself.
 
Here is what my buddy in socal recommended for me in MI:
1. low-e double strength glass, i.e. get the thickest glass you can get,
2. foam insulation
3. double pane with low-e is fine, best bang for your $$
4. casement seals the best unless you go picture.
5. if you go casement, get the folding crank
6. seal the bare frame with paintable water seal and then paint the fram BEFORE attaching the window
 
I agree completely with JOD. According to the US Department of energy, well sealing, old wooden windows equal the energy efficiency of new double glazed. I've repaired most of the 104 year old windows in my house.

I had two that had already been replaced with vinyl double glazed by a previous owner that had already had the glazing between the pains failed. I replaced these with the wood double sash kit from Kolbe. Very good kit and easy to install.
 
Originally Posted By: Al
I am removing the old double hung sashes inside stops and track and install new.



You're not replacing the entire window, but you're just installing a sash kit, correct?

You are right, it's simple. However you won't get the same efficiency with a sash kit as you will by completely replacing the window. You're still keeping the old frame and sill, and you're also not able to add any additional insulation while the window is out.

In my opinion you're better off replacing the entire window. It's not terribly difficult and the results will be far more efficient.
 
All good suggestions. I hadn't thought of replacing the sash's. I'm liking that idea thanks. Thanks for the info on Pella. I'm just starting my search. I know I'm waiting til the last minute. But since I'm saving a bunch of bucks by doing it myself its no big deal.

Yea I am planning on starting with one window. I really want to do it myself.

Again thanks. Lots of food for thought.

Jod....you are right there is nothing about them I don't like. Did you go through a local supplier to get the sashes??? I assume you only rip out the inside stop??

Fsskier: I liked your info..thanks.
 
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Go with the double pane type,argon filled..if you can afford them.
You will save so much in energy,in a short time,it will be unbelievable.
I haven't even needed my furnace yet.
During the last winter..
I leave for work and leave my furnace off,temp of 65.
I return 10 hours later,house is 58.
 
Originally Posted By: Al



Jod....you are right there is nothing about them I don't like. Did you go through a local supplier to get the sashes??? I assume you only rip out the inside stop??




I helped a friend install sash kits which were the spring-loaded type. I took the measurements then we just ordered them from a local supplier. They were drop-shipped from Loewen right to the house. For those, we removed the front stop and the parting bead (the part that separates the two sashes).

In my own house, I actually kept the original windows. They had about 70 layers of paint and were crooked (and needed to be straightened since we leveled the house). The were held together by metal L-brackets at each corner!

I scraped out the old window glaze, removed the glass (most of which were broken), then disassembled the frames. Stripped all of the paint, glued the frames back together with Gorilla glue, re-glazed the glass, and re-hung the windows using sash chain instead of chord. I shimmed it with felt backing in parts so they'd move freely but not rattle.

I won't kid you, I probably put in 40 hours of work for each window, most of it paint stripping so I could then stain the original wood. But they're clear, old growth vertical grain fir, so it seemed worth it to me at the time. If you don't have a lot of paint on them, or you're OK with them being painted, it's a lot less work.

I'd imagine there's a millwork place in PGH that will sell simple double-hung sashes if one is too far gone or if you're missing one. This place had really reasonable prices on sashes--you could put the glass in yourself or they could glaze it in. Shipping might be a bit much, but it may be worth checking out.

Storms are easy to build. If you have a router or even just a table saw, you can build the frame and tack in the glass. Otherwise, a local millwork shop can build the frames.

If your house is old enough to have double hung windows, it's probably worth trying to keep the charm intact.
 
Well, although I may consider the sash kits for a couple of them. For now I'm going with the Anderson Window. I can buy it locally (as opposed to a Box store for $177 + Tax [$188]) I already ripped one window out. Even with fiddling around it took about an hour. Next one will take 15 minutes. I think as mentioned above...Total time 1 hour total..per window.
 
Originally Posted By: mormit
I agree completely with JOD. According to the US Department of energy, well sealing, old wooden windows equal the energy efficiency of new double glazed. I've repaired most of the 104 year old windows in my house.


an interesting statement but.......

Repeated publications from the DOE and everybody else gives much higher R values to Low E, Argon Filled windows than old fashioned storm windows. As mentioned in my earlier post, actual temp measurements show a Low E thermo pane to be much more efficient than ordinary storm windows.

Lots of heat loss through the window is radiant heat, and the low-E coating virtually eliminates it...about a 90 percent reduction in radiant heat loss.

Accepted values for windows with storms: R= 2
Accepted values for low e, argon thermopanes R=4

My best windows, triple glass, low e, argon R=7

All my low e windows are greatly warmer than my old fashioned windows with storms, which are (older) very high quality, well sealed Andersen windows.

Even my older triple glass windows do not perform as well as a low e twin glass window.

If you know of any DOE studies that differ from this, please provide a link.
 
OK, and now a question. Years ago I saw an ad for a window film from Gila industries that claimed to be clear but with a very low e number. Gila seems to be a major supplier of various window tint films but I cannot find any information on a clear, low emissivity film.

If you could apply that to a storm window, it would make it perform much more like a modern low e window.

Anybody know of any current suppliers of such a film??
Or maybe storm glass with the low emissivity film already sputtered onto it??
 
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Originally Posted By: JOD

I won't kid you, I probably put in 40 hours of work for each window, most of it paint stripping so I could then stain the original wood. But they're clear, old growth vertical grain fir, so it seemed worth it to me at the time. If you don't have a lot of paint on them, or you're OK with them being painted, it's a lot less work.

I believe it. At the age of 65 something isn't even on the radar screen. I devote as little time to this kind of activity as possible.

Having said that I enjoy doing some things that I don't really need to do in the area of home repair, etc. Windows is just not one of them.
 
Around here we have several companies who will install a vinyl replacement double pane window for $169-$200 each for ANY SIZE installed.

I had them install 10 windows last year, and 8 are coming in this week. They are Jen-Weld builder grade vinyl windows, not argon filled or anything like that but they are much better than 50 year old wood windows.

When you get the extras like insulation, and pay for them to remove old storm windows, it comes to about $198 installed for each window.

The 4 windows in the bedrooms are HUGE, even ordering a cheapo window from the depot would be over $200 each.

If you were to order a window from lowes or home depot, you would pay 120-160 each. The installer takes 20 minutes to install each window.

I'd rather pay someone to do it for those prices, it just doesn't make sense UNLESS you are installing a very high dollar window ($300+).

I live in a modest two family house, that in the future will be income property for me. It doesn't make sense to put high dollar ANYTHING in this house, especially with tenants.
 
Have you considered the upgrade to low e, argon filled??

Multiple sources and tests have shown that new conventional thermopanes do not outperform old fashioned storm windows... except that they are new looking, of course. The upgrade to Low e and argon will cut the heat loss in half.

There is no magic in windows. Spending lots on newspaper ads and salesman's commissions does not increase a windows efficiency.

Two of my neighbors are now faced with the dilemma of replacing their "new" but cold windows...and they missed the tax credit and did not save any money anyway. If your new windows do not qualify for the tax credit, that means they likely FAIL to save you any energy, or to make your house more comfortable.

Worst case: The teenager in the NW bedroom of one house notes that it is now too cold to stay in her room in January... her new windows also have mouse fur seals, not vinyl compression seals... and seal worse than the old,ugly paint peeled wooden windows.

But her dad saved 90 bucks a window.

Interestingly, the salesman came to my door because I had stopped and asked some questions while he was measuring....
I asked about low e and argon and he responded:
These window do not lose any heat at all, so why would you pay more!!

I politely dismissed him, as he was clearly either a liar or a fool.
 
Bought a 118 Energy Stay window at Home Depot. IOnstallation went pretty good. Its installed in the garage and I wanted to make the mistakes on that one. I have it down pat now, I'm buying higher end for the rest of the house.

By getting them custom measured you can install them with out ripping out the sill. The standard sizes preclude that. The custom measured come with a piece that sits in the window stool and that makes the bottom of the replacement window level with the top of the sill. Should make the whole thing a lot easier.
 
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