I am reading up on modern remote fobs, do you guys use an RFID blocker or even keep your fobs in aluminum foil at night?
Relay Theft/Hacking key fobs- Let's talk about it
- Thread starter Dohc98vteC
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
No, just keep them away from the door here.
No I don't, nobody is going to steal a Caravan. If I had a nicer vehicle yes i would have something to block the signal. It amazing that even with security cameras these guys are brazen and still carrying out the thefts.
I've had Keyless go on my Mercedes which came out in 2008. Had it for 6 years now. Never bothered to do anything with it. I'm in a parking lot so they'd have to follow me to figure out where I live. It's a problem in Europe but so far US thieves aren't that smart and it's not a problem here yet. Mercedes fixed it in 2018 when the keyfob goes to sleep after 5 minutes if it doesn't detect movement like sitting in a drawer or stationary in your pant pockets. Anyway, the bottom line is that I'm not worried about it, that's what insurance is for.
Read the thread I started here on September 21, 2020 : titled "Do you keep your key-fob in a Mu-metal box?"
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While some on here comment "that's what insurance is for" the way I look at it is that I spent months researching and then finding the right vehicle when I bought it, and I do not want to go through that again until it is time to move on to the next vehicle. And you will take a loss on taxes, and there are items I keep in the car. My insurance does cover a rental if my car is damaged or taken ( I pay a little extra for that to be added to the policy), but I do not want to be pressured with a limit on how many days the rental is available, and have to find the next vehicle within a set number of days.
I do not need the upset in my life that having my vehicle stolen would cause. So it is worth it to me to keep my key-fob in two metal boxes that block the signal from the key-fob well enough that if you hold the fob in those boxes next to the vehicle, the vehicle does not recognize the fob. And also I do not keep those boxes and fob near any door or outside wall.
I do not need the upset in my life that having my vehicle stolen would cause. So it is worth it to me to keep my key-fob in two metal boxes that block the signal from the key-fob well enough that if you hold the fob in those boxes next to the vehicle, the vehicle does not recognize the fob. And also I do not keep those boxes and fob near any door or outside wall.
I think it is mostly the fobs that you keep in your pocket and do not have to push any button on the fob, and the vehicle recognizes you when you get close to it with the fob in your pocket. They have two boxes. One thief holds one of the boxes near your front door and picks up your fob signal, and transmits the codes imbedded in the signal from you fob to a second thief holding a second box near your vehicle. The second box emulates your fob by sending out the same signal on the same frequency and the vehicle recognizes it as the fob being near the vehicle and allows the second thief to enter and start the vehicle.
If you have to push a button on the fob, a thief could still steal the vehicle if they were close to you when you push the button. They could pick up and store the signal, and then at a later time play the signal back to steal the vehicle.
There are some YouTube videos on how thieves are doing this kind of stuff.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Think that one only works on really old stuff, newer stuff has rotating codes that change every time (even my old BMW had that) so that somebody capturing the current code won't be able to access the vehicle by doing a replay later.
A person who is very savvy in radio and electronics and has the right equipment can do this kind of signal capture, and then do what ever they want to do with that captured signal. May years ago, I heard a story about a ham radio buff who just for the fun of it, recorded the signals sent to a satellite, and figured out what the sequence of signals at the end of the message were that told the satellite to go to sleep for a while, and then sent that signal to shut down the satellite, causing problems for the people who were using the satellite.
Some of these people are cleaver, and looking for something mischievous to do.
Some of these people are cleaver, and looking for something mischievous to do.
If a man can make it a man can break it. Or woman
Probably so. If the maker of the fob system takes the time and makes the effort, there are things that can be done to make it much harder for a thief who uses radio interception to be able to steal the vehicle.
As I mentioned in the other thread on this subject I feel that in my case it was worth the few bucks to get a faraday pouch to store the fobs. One, you know where they are. Two, they do block the signal as they constantly communicate with the car on a regular basis. Finally, that lack of communication also saves on batteries. In the three years I’ve had the CX5 I have replaced the batteries one time in one fob.
As the car is parked right next to the house this was also a factor in boosting my security of the vehicle.
As the car is parked right next to the house this was also a factor in boosting my security of the vehicle.
Yeah, that's pretty much the basis of public/private key encryption. The car sends out a request based on a private key and generates a code based on that. With the known code by the keyfob, it generates a response. Each time the code is sent out, it's a different code and you need the private key in order to generate the correct response to it.
As for the that's what insurance is for comment, I've had mine for a few years and wouldn't mind getting a new car, just that there's nothing wrong with mine so no need to get another now except that it'd just be nice. But used car prices are high now so mind as well wait. Unless the car gets stolen of course. But that is very rare and this type of theft doesn't seem to be common at all in the US so really nothing to worry about. Mine isn't that easy to steal anyway and if a thief is smart enough to steal mine, they can have it.
Aside from Mercedes making the newer fobs go to sleep after 5 minutes what they could have done was tighten up the time to get a response. Basically by rebroadcasting the signal, there's an extra time delay involved. They could have put a timer on how long it takes to receive a signal which would have eliminated this type of attack, but most automakers didn't bother. Kind of like the number of hops you can have in ethernet transmissions. Each rebroadcast is a hop.
They can only get IN the vehicle that way, and it will disable the alarm BUT the immobilizer is seperate and requires to read the key transponder.
Thieves don't need to "capture" the signal, they're just amplifying it so that the car thinks the key is in close proximity. This will gain you entry into the car and let you start/drive it. There are videos on yt showing people stealing cars this way and also of people using the same technology to just enter vehicles to steal whatever is inside. Besides shielding your key fobs, keep your vehicles as empty as possible if you have to park outside. There are loads of videos of just generic low-tech thieves going around looking in windows and trying door handles. You're far more likely to be a victim of one of them than someone with the ability to amplify the key signal IMO(even though I'm sure that information is widely available online these days and likely very simple to construct).
Faraday pouches are pretty cheap on Amazon. Got a 2 pack for <$20. They work. Key fobs go in those when "home". Necessary? Maybe not. Paranoid? Maybe. It's $20 and not a hardship to use the pouch so why not...
Use a regular metal key. Problem solved.
Oh yeah, I remember those days when you could keep a spare key in your wallet and get a copy for under $10. Now those keyless go fobs are in the $500-$750 range. I think the $750 is for the newer keys, the older ones were in the $500 range. But now no one steals your car whereas before all you needed was a screwdriver to pop the ignition. Not sure if it was better when they stole your car. On the other hand, with keyless go, I never lock the keys in the car, it knows when the keys are in the car and you're wondering why it doesn't lock and then realize the keys are in the car.
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