That’s what thermally out of control means. The thermostat is wide-open and unable to regulate the temperature.
Redline water wetter....anyone seen/tried this?
- Thread starter TiGeo
- Start date
So you’re measuring the temperature after the radiator then?
^ The average temperature can be lower everywhere in the system (except the radiator metal itself) if the thermostat is open.
If the water is cooler after the radiator it is also cooler going back into the engine. Engine produces same amount of heat either way, but cooler water going in, rises to a lower peak temp to absorb that, not a higher one. Next since the water is slighly cooler, raises radiator temperature slightly less if it weren't for the wetting factor causing more efficient transfer to the metal.
You might think the same happens in the engine, that the more efficient heat transfer makes the water hotter but the more efficient heat transfer makes the engine cooler too, with less difference in the temps between the two, so it balances out on that end. This is also what it's doing on the radiator end, but instead of cooling, rather raising the radiator temperature closer to that of the water so X amount of airflow cools it more.
If the water is cooler after the radiator it is also cooler going back into the engine. Engine produces same amount of heat either way, but cooler water going in, rises to a lower peak temp to absorb that, not a higher one. Next since the water is slighly cooler, raises radiator temperature slightly less if it weren't for the wetting factor causing more efficient transfer to the metal.
You might think the same happens in the engine, that the more efficient heat transfer makes the water hotter but the more efficient heat transfer makes the engine cooler too, with less difference in the temps between the two, so it balances out on that end. This is also what it's doing on the radiator end, but instead of cooling, rather raising the radiator temperature closer to that of the water so X amount of airflow cools it more.
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So the cooler water presented at the thermostat somehow does not cause it to close?
I doubt it. That's even impossible with no thermostat as I doubt there's something in there
with a higher thermal capacity than pure water. Does anyone have the corresponding MSDS
on hand?
Btw, what's better than a K&N filter discussion? Apparantly a WaterWetter discussion....
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Of course it could, if the average load on the engine puts it that near the trip point, but wouldn't you expect it to settle a few degrees higher than that? Temp would just rise until it opened again unless very light load or the HVAC heater + ambient temp is just enough to drop water temp. If it's not even getting hot enough to open the thermostat, little point in using water wetter for that purpose.
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AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
What are you saying without saying it? That Water Wetter doesn't work? That it prevents heat transfer to the water?
2 examples for you to comment on:
The race car engine was fairly stock and either ran no thermostat or a big washer with a specific sized hole, just don't remember.
If you're towing uphill and your gauge is going up is your engine thermally out of control?
The heat transfer will be better out of the radiator as well correct?
I think it’s pretty clear that’s the only circumstance where it might help. Otherwise the thermostat regulates the temperature to its setpoint, not lower nor higher.
I’ve never see an engine that at steady-state can reject sufficient heat through radiation and convection. Even in cold weather the thermostat is open to some extent. Either way that’s not what is happening here, the water wetter is not making the engine a better black body nor increasing the surface area for better convection.
Most uses of this is in older cars where the owner has already installed a 180 or 160 thermostat. Temperatures do go above that under high loads, idling in traffic, towing, etc. If this prevents the coolant from reaching 230 and it stays at 210 or 220, that is a good thing. The full open temperature of the thermostat isn't the same as the maximum engine operating temperature. i.e the coolant temp doesn't stop rising just because the thermostat is fully open.
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Agree with that. Maybe WW should be seen as a bit of overheating insurance in normally operating vehicles.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2022
I haven't tried it, I ain't gonna, and you can't make me. I'm the expert; you are clueless.
Anyone going to post real data or just bicker?
Anyone going to post real data or just bicker?
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
We saw roughly the same drop, from 250 to low 230s. It was enough that the engine lasted the season.
CleanSump
Site Donor 2022
The thermostats don't pop open and pop closed. Anyone who has tested one with a pot of hot water and a thermometer has seen the gradual opening and closing.
1/ Don't use it in G-48 / BMW / Volvo coolant. Brown deposits precipitate out in the cooling system.
2/ I had a nice weather weekend car back in the early 2000s which was driven hard from time to time and had a lot of heat to shed. It had a real, unbuffered coolant temperature gauge. You could easily see thermostat open/close activity and when the cooling system was wide open and still the temp was climbing. It never overheated, it was behaving perfectly normally, but you could see when the thermostat was no longer regulating the temperature. A treatment of WW lessened the times it was off thermostat. Based on personal observation, I think it can work, and can help, but may not make enough of a difference to bother, especially when there are coolants with which it will react and deposit gunk in the cooling system thereby making heat transfer much worse instead of better.
EDIT: all that being said, running a 40/60 or 30/70 mixture (can't remember which) meant it never left the "thermostat" temperature hardly at all, so there were multiple ways to improve the issue, and a lower coolant concentration worked better than the additive (but would not protect the coolant from freezing in my winter storage conditions at the time)
2/ I had a nice weather weekend car back in the early 2000s which was driven hard from time to time and had a lot of heat to shed. It had a real, unbuffered coolant temperature gauge. You could easily see thermostat open/close activity and when the cooling system was wide open and still the temp was climbing. It never overheated, it was behaving perfectly normally, but you could see when the thermostat was no longer regulating the temperature. A treatment of WW lessened the times it was off thermostat. Based on personal observation, I think it can work, and can help, but may not make enough of a difference to bother, especially when there are coolants with which it will react and deposit gunk in the cooling system thereby making heat transfer much worse instead of better.
EDIT: all that being said, running a 40/60 or 30/70 mixture (can't remember which) meant it never left the "thermostat" temperature hardly at all, so there were multiple ways to improve the issue, and a lower coolant concentration worked better than the additive (but would not protect the coolant from freezing in my winter storage conditions at the time)
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- Aug 12, 2020
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Here you go. Always hilarious to watch people on here who are convinced that every product is perfectly formulated and there is never room for a functional improvement.
https://motoiq.com/testing-redliness-new-super-coolant/
Also keep in mind most "racecars" don't use thermostats. If anything there is a restricter in place of the thermostat to help regulate flow. A thermostat is just another point of failure on a racecar.
I use it in my snowmobile. It has a heat exchanger rather than a rad. Last year we didnt get much snow and I ran quiet a bit on a river. Not much snow was tossed up by the track into the heat exchanger. I think it helped. I have no scientific way of saying it did or did not.
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