RedLine 5w-30, 8250 mi, '03 Audi A4 1.8T

[Quattro Pete]

I am posting this on behalf of a fellow AudiWorld member. As usual, all comments are very welcome.

code:

---

EQUIPMENT : 2003 Audi A4 1.8 turbo

OIL : RedLine 5w-30

OIL USE INTERVAL : 8250 mi / approx. 5 months

TOTAL MILES : 18094 mi

MAKE-UP OIL ADDED : 1 qt

OIL FILTER : Mecca Performance Filter

AIR FILTER : OEM

.

DRIVING PATTERN : 20% city / 80% hwy

LAB : Blackstone

.

.

THIS UNIT UNIV.

SAMPLE AVG. AVG.

----------------------------------

ALUMINUM 5 5 5

CHROMIUM 1 1 2

IRON 20 20 25

COPPER 11 11 13

LEAD 7 7 5

TIN 1 1 1

MOLYBDENUM 518 518 57

NICKEL 2 2 1

MANGANESE 2 2 1

SILVER 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 17 17 1

BORON 8 8 73

SILICON 20 20 13

SODIUM 19 19 6

CALCIUM 3187 3187 1317

MAGNESIUM 8 8 641

PHOSPHORUS 1050 1050 810

ZINC 1201 1201 1018

BARIUM 0 0 0

-------------------------------

SUS VISC@210F: 68.4

FLASHPOINT : 375F

FUEL :
ANTIFREEZE : 0.0%

WATER : 0.0%

INSOLUBLES : 0.2%

TBN : 1.4

-------------------------

---

Blackstone's comments:
Universal averages show typical wear metals for an oil from this type of engine after 6,600 miles. Your oil was run 8,000 miles, and we found almost all wear at or below average and in the correct balance to show normal wearing parts. The viscosity was mildly high for a normal 5W/30, but still in the 30W range, so we can't complain too much. The TBN read 1.4, which is fairly low. It probably started out at 9 and a low reading is 1.0 or less. Suggest going 9,000 miles on the next oil. As long as wear and insolubles are low, the TBN may not be a problem.

[ March 03, 2004, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: Quattro Pete ]

 

[buster]

This is a good report. Iron seems high, but how do we know it's iron with Redline. Here is a M1 comparison with 10k miles on it. I have to ask, was ZDP and issue here, or HT/HS ? I just don't see where all of these specs. make a difference at times.

Notice the lower Iron with Mobil 1 vs the Redline.


Oil Brand/Weight: Mobil1 SuperSyn 5w-30
Type Equipment : 2001 Audi A4 1.8L Turbo
Oil Filter: Audi OEM
Total Miles : 30,170
Miles on oil : 10,373
Make-up oil added: 0 qts
Lab: Blackstone/Dyson

..... Results (ppm) .....

ALUMINUM 4
CHROMIUM 1
IRON 12
COPPER 5
LEAD 3
TIN 0
MOLYBDENUM 65
NICKEL 1
MANGANESE 0
SILVER 0
TITANIUM 0
POTASSIUM 0
BORON 146
SILICON 9
SODIUM 7
CALCIUM 2648
MAGNESIUM 42
PHOSPHORUS 766
ZINC 1007
BARIUM 0


Physical Properties
Water 0%
Fuel Antifreeze 0%
Insolubles 0.3%
Flashpoint 420F
TBN 11
Sus Vis@210F 70.5, SAE 40w

[ March 03, 2004, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Patman]

With such a low TBN I'm not so sure Redline could handle higher than 10,000 miles in very many situations.

I'm curious as to what the highest mileage anyone on here has pushed Redline, and what was their TBN?

Wear is good, although that M1 report Buster posted sure looks better!

 

[Al]

Sorry..with each Redline report I am less impressed

 

[quadrun1]

I dunno, I've read that with Redline, higher metals and lower TBN are both acceptable?

There was a Redline UOA on here a while back with a TBN of ZERO!

 

[TooSlick]

There is NO technical validity in picking and choosing selected UOA's and trying to come to a conclusion about oils based on them!!! The operating conditions are different - including the BIG variable of individual driving styles - the mechanical condition of each engine - including mods - is different, and the fuel and/or fuel adds are different.

This is a typical wear pattern for this engine and I see NO problems here. The Mecca seems to be doing a fine job, as I'd typically expect a higher solids level with this much TBN depletion....Of course since this is a Blackstone analysis I question how relevant the TBN is anyway

I'd probably run the RL, 5w-40 in this application if I was using RL. I think it's their best formulation for HiPo applications ....

TS

 

[buster]

Ted, I completely agree regarding looking at one sample. Why the 5w-40 though? RL in a 30wt should be fine.

I posted above that ZDP didn't matter in this case, however, this is an older version of M1 with a bit more ZDP. Ever since Mobil has lowered the ZDP to below 800ppm, Iron seems to have gone up.

[ March 03, 2004, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[sprintman]

Ted i'm with you the 5W40 should be better. Tyrolkids UOA's with 5W40 in a turbo engine will do me tks.

 

[outrun]

MECCA PERFORMANCE FILTER???

Are you serious? Sounds like some kind of new Islamic front. Oil filter revenues for radical muslim groups are something

Mecca performance *lol*

 

[outrun]

And before we knock Redline or Royal Purple.

I wish more people would run it long term...and then post the results.

For example on one car of ours Royal Purple was run from a showroom "new" 6,000miles all the way to 85,000.

Perhaps those are the cars we need posting.

Not "hit-and-run" UOA for these types of oils.

Can anyone explain why RL has a tested low TBN usually however? Is it an over reliance on Esters to do all the work perhaps?

 

[jthorner]

Am I imagining things, or are excuses always made for mediocre Redline results?

Those Iron and TBN results for 8,500 miles with 80% highway running are hardly something special considering that this is one of the most expensive street oils sold.

John

 

[VeeDubb]

I'm surprised that the univ. avg. for iron is 25. I'm thinking that is awfully high for the 1.8L that are in A4's and Passats. I don't ever recall seeing a Passat 1.8 with iron over 20. What's going on? Are Audis just driven harder? Is it the CVT tranny? I know the manual trannies are geared differently from Passats - seems that Audis run higher rpms for a given mph. Could that have anything to do with it?

 

[TooSlick]

The universal averages are totally meaningless ...I'd ignore them all together.

Wear rates for iron in this engine are typically in the 1.5-2.0 ppm/1000 mile range. So this is slightly high, but very hard driving could easily be the cause of that. There are just too many variables other than oil to draw conclusions from a single data point ....

Tooslick

 

[Alex D]

Redline somehow must have a copper extracting agent in there .... all UOAs with Redline have high Cu . I think my GM 5.3 UOA with RL 5W-30 was the highest at 256 ppm Cu .

 

[Calvin]

May I ask a totally beginners question ? In Quattro Pete's sample it shows Potassium @ 17 PPM..... Is this potassium level something to be conserned about ?.. or is that an insignificant amount ?

 

[satterfi]

Most of my Redline UOAs show Potassium at that level. I think it's part of RL's formulation.

The same goes for tin.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I do not see were this UOA is anything but good! I think it did well especialy for 8000 miles!

Does anyone here really think M1 or GC would have done any better? The only thing that bothers me about Redline is the low flash point on almost all of the UOA!

I am sure this is not the last oil he will try so we will be able to see how other oils do init as well!

 

[Calvin]

Thanks Satterfi !