Red Line as an Additive?

[westcoaster]

I was parusing the VOA's the other day and I was impressed with the stoutness of the Redline Oil. It seems like it is more like an engine oil additive than oil. Very high ZDDP, Moly and Ester Base. However, the price point on it makes it very prohibitive to purchase, north of the border at 13 bucks a liter.

But, to substitute a liter of it in my normal fill of PP, soon to be Ultra may give some added boost to base line numbers, not a major boost, but enough to see in a UOA.

Is anyone currently doing this, or has done this and what are the sentiments on this?

 

[DieselTech]

I don't see why not, but likely the PU is stout enough and the added zinc wont benefit you much unless you have a flat tappet engine.

 

[demarpaint]

A few people I know do just that. I would think it would boost a less expensive oil. We already know you won't get the full benefits of using it straight up. But I'd be pretty sure it would give whatever you add it to a little kick. JMO

 

[d00df00d]

I wouldn't use a fully formulated engine oil as an additive.

If you like it, use it straight up. That's what it's made to do.

 

[ScoobySTeveD]

The Redlines are also good for extended drain intervals, if that helps with your cost justification.

And we just Redline MT-90 as an "additive" to blend with high quality 75W90 synthetic gear oils (Motul Gear 300, Amsoil Severe Gear) in manual transmissions. About 25% MT90 slows the synchros enough to make shifting faster, especially in the extreme cold.

 

[JHZR2]

But MT90 is a 75w-90 for all intents and purposes... Not sure I get the logic.

 

[ScoobySTeveD]

Motul Gear 300, Amsoil Severe Gear, and some other dedicated ultimate protection gear oils are not friction modified for working with synchros. It becomes most obvious in Subaru six speeds in cold weather, trying to grab 1st when you start out in the morning. If your STi is rolling down the driveway, chances are you're not going to have an easy time at it. Same when heel-toeing down to first in an autoslalom, or for downshifting to first for parking lot maneuvers getting groceries. The Subaru 5-speed is less susceptible to this problem, but still demonstrates those characteristics.

So these ultra slick and protective gear lubes do great in differentials, but when using them in a synchro transmission, you sometimes have to do some negotiation or have patience to get them into gear. The friction modification in the MT90 used at 25% is enough for our Subaru gearboxes to reduce the synchro speed for faster gear engagement without forcing shifts. You can also custom tune the feel and speed of shifting by changing that proportion. For a few of us who compete in our Subarus, that's an important feature.

Most of my upshifts (granted, with other drivetrain modifications) are under 0.2 seconds from stop of acceleration G's to continuation of acceleration G's, with no grinding, forcing, or difficulty finding gears. (Okay, jump in and call me slow here, but my 6 speed's drain plug magnet never has more than some powder on it.) With a higher than 25% friction modified ratio, the shifting felt slightly more sluggish to me. Firm and positive, but sluggish. I don't have datalogs from when I was using straight Motul Gear 300, but I can honestly tell you that shifts were slower.

It's a phenomenon well documented by Cobb, CanJam, and other tuning shops. Each one has it's formula using their preferred lubricant brands, but they all contain some mixture of friction modified transmission lube for the synchros, and some other ultra-slick gear lube stuff for protection under competition conditions. I suppose we could use Amsoil MTG (synchromesh 75W90) with the Amsoil Severe Gear as well, but the Redline was proven to work well long ago and most people stick with it.

My Honda buddies do well with full Amsoil MTF to eliminate grinding in older gearboxes compared to Honda MTF, but we might start playing with some of those ratios as well this summer to blend in some Severe Gear for protection and to see what happens with shifting speeds and gearbox feel.