Recycled motor oil end users

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by ctechbob
Interesting, there was an executive order way back in 2000

If I'm not mistaken, executive orders can be cancelled or voided by the next president. That one was written by Clinton in his last year so Bush may have voided it just months later. I'm not sure if that one had a built-in expiration date, was cancelled by a later president, or is still in effect.



Yea, I didn't go that far into researching it, just thought it was interesting that at least once-upon-a-time it was a thing.

Although I know I've heard within the last few years that the military still gets stuff from Safety Kleen, so maybe its either still in effect or there's a long term contract at play. Who knows.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted by ctechbob
They certainly missed the marketing mark with it. The straight up 'recycled' pitch just didn't sit with consumers. Why pay the same for something that 99/100 people see as 'used' when you can have 'new' for the same price.

That's pretty much it. The whole idea of "used", or "rerefined" doesn't sit well with most consumers. Regardless of how "green" they think they are..... Or want to be. And you're correct about them not wanting to listen to some song and dance about how it's, "just as good". They don't care.

It's the same with all of this biodiesel. It's hard to convince a guy who just paid $80+K for his brand new, F-350 Series Crew Cab Super Diesel, to put fuel in it that was pumped out of a smelly deep fryer at McDonald's.

Especially if he can purchase virgin Diesel at the same price. Most find it repulsive enough they now have to purchase what amounts to "cow pee". And pour it into the tank next to the fuel cap. Or else their truck won't start.

 

[Eddie]

Oil recycle places used to pay me 5 or 10 cents a quart or maybe a gallon, for used engine oil. Was so long ago I don't remember when. Ed

 

[Rick505]

Looks like Safety-Kleen isn't really available in the "retail chain" or whatever individual sales are called via a retailer. Looks like they sell to automotive dealerships, trucking and transportation, and utilities plus industrial and specialty. Heck, depending on price, I'd give it a go since at least some of their product shows Dexos Gen2 and API SN PLUS/ILSAC GF-5.

 

[tom slick]

Many municipalities and companies have Environmental Preferential Purchasing (EPP) which will state that the will use recycled products when possible, lubricants are usually called out specifically. I recently applied for a grant that required proof of our company' EPP.

Safety Kleen is a B2B business model, there is no interest in retail sales. They do capitalize on any goods and services that commercial/industrial and government need.

 

[Rick505]

Originally Posted by tom slick
Many municipalities and companies have Environmental Preferential Purchasing (EPP) which will state that the will use recycled products when possible, lubricants are usually called out specifically. I recently applied for a grant that required proof of our company' EPP.

Safety Kleen is a B2B business model, there is no interest in retail sales. They do capitalize on any goods and services that commercial/industrial and government need.


Understood, but I wanted to try some presuming the price was right. However, with sales and rebates, I doubt it would be worth it.

 

[WobblyElvis]

I pay the same price for recycled oil or new oil if it meets the same spec.

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted by ctechbob
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Electromotive
NextGen was a flop


Just because consumers were finicky doesn't mean the idea itself was without merit; it just means it was not the correct idea for consumer sentiment at the time it was implemented.


They certainly missed the marketing mark with it. I think they would have been better off putting a price differential in there between 'new' and 're-refined'. The straight up 'recycled' pitch just didn't sit with consumers. Why pay the same for something that 99/100 people see as 'used' when you can have 'new' for the same price. They didn't really want to hear that you'd probably never be able to tell the difference between the two of them.

Personally, as long as they re-refine it properly I'd be ok with doing away with the rule where you can only use XX% of re-refined oil in a product and call it 'new'.

The problem with pricing it lower than virgin oil (aside from making a profit and making it worthwhile to produce and sell) is that it infers that the recycled product is not as good and is lower quality than the virgin stuff, when that's not the case. There's already this huge misconception that recycled oil is dirty, used oil that's just been put back in bottles to be re-sold, and plenty of people who would say "not in MY engine!" Pricing it lower just perpetuates that misconception.

 

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by exranger06
Originally Posted by ctechbob
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Electromotive
NextGen was a flop


Just because consumers were finicky doesn't mean the idea itself was without merit; it just means it was not the correct idea for consumer sentiment at the time it was implemented.


They certainly missed the marketing mark with it. I think they would have been better off putting a price differential in there between 'new' and 're-refined'. The straight up 'recycled' pitch just didn't sit with consumers. Why pay the same for something that 99/100 people see as 'used' when you can have 'new' for the same price. They didn't really want to hear that you'd probably never be able to tell the difference between the two of them.

Personally, as long as they re-refine it properly I'd be ok with doing away with the rule where you can only use XX% of re-refined oil in a product and call it 'new'.

The problem with pricing it lower than virgin oil (aside from making a profit and making it worthwhile to produce and sell) is that it infers that the recycled product is not as good and is lower quality than the virgin stuff, when that's not the case. There's already this huge misconception that recycled oil is dirty, used oil that's just been put back in bottles to be re-sold, and plenty of people who would say "not in MY engine!" Pricing it lower just perpetuates that misconception.



Valid point and a catch 22 I'd say. You've got

'lower priced, must not be as good'

on one side and

'same price, might as well buy 'new'' on the other.

Only way around that would be to change opinions of the masses, good luck with that. I guess they could have priced it higher and thrown some buzzwords in there and see what happened with that.

 

[tahoe_hybrid]

The issue with recycled oil is



Contamination

with coolant
with Oil additives
mixed grades of oils
water
brake fluid (damages seals)
transmission fluid
etc..

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by tahoe_hybrid
The issue with recycled oil is

Contamination

with coolant
with Oil additives
mixed grades of oils
water
brake fluid (damages seals)
transmission fluid
etc..

Really. So they pretty much just put the old oil into a new bottle? Maybe a little filtering to get the big chunks out but that's it?

 

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by tahoe_hybrid
The issue with recycled oil is

Contamination

with coolant
with Oil additives
mixed grades of oils
water
brake fluid (damages seals)
transmission fluid
etc..



Not really. Oil is 're-refined'. Just like water can be distilled, 'recycled' oil goes through many of the same processes out of the ground crude does with some additional steps in the beginning to remove contaminants. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference in any meaningful way with re-refined product and product made from new crude or some form of processed oil.

The only 'problem' with re-refining oil is removing those contaminants during the first steps, even then, the process is built to deal with it.

 

[ctechbob]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by tahoe_hybrid
The issue with recycled oil is

Contamination

with coolant
with Oil additives
mixed grades of oils
water
brake fluid (damages seals)
transmission fluid
etc..

Really. So they pretty much just put the old oil into a new bottle? Maybe a little filtering to get the big chunks out but that's it?



No, see above post. There are many steps for the feedstock to go through that other 'new' oils don't, but the end product is probably indistinguishable.

 

[tom slick]

Originally Posted by tahoe_hybrid
The issue with recycled oil is



Contamination

with coolant
with Oil additives
mixed grades of oils
water
brake fluid (damages seals)
transmission fluid
etc..


How clean do you think crude oil is?

 

[jakewells]

I sell my oil to a local repair shop i get payed 1.00 per gallon he burns it in his waste oil furnace. The only other places that take it are automotive parts stores and there is certain restrictions like no power steering fluid or transmission gear oil / fluids.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted by exranger06
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
As long as contaminants are removed and the add pack/TBN is replenished before new use, what's the problem?


Nobody said there was any problem...

The PQIA said there was a problem when they tested Valvoline NexGen, and it didn't meet the viscosity spec. NexGen disappeared from stores not long after that. I bought a few quarts on clearance and ran it in my riding mower, which consumed it faster than other oils I've run in it. I give Valvoline points for trying to create a niche-market category, like they did with high-mileage oil a couple of decades ago, but judging from the PQIA test, I don't think they could control the quality of the product. Back at the time, we had long debates on BITOG about NexGen, and my major beef with it was that it should have been priced lower than their conventional oil, based on the fact that re-refining used oil takes less energy than refining crude oil. What comes out of the ground is nastier than what comes out of most engines.

But if anybody is interested, there still is a re-refined passenger car oil available:
https://www.phillips66lubricants.com/product/shield-firebird/

 

[ctechbob]

Wasn't viscosity, was NOACK

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Nov2013/Valvolinenextgen.htm

But then the next year on a retest of another sample it was ok.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/vnextgen.htm

And Ashlands reply

http://pqiamerica.com/NextGen%205W-20%20-%20PQIA%20response%20(3).pdf

Ok, that above link refuses to play nice, but will work (at least in chrome) if you highlight it, right click, and select 'go to'

 

[antonmnster]

Used motor oil is probably cleaner and certainly chemically simpler than crude. I worked for a municipality that used re-refined oil, never saw a failure. (Save for a Cushman or such with 10,000+ hours)

Does Valvoline still sell that stuff in the green bottles?

 

[PandaBear]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the oil you buy already have some re-refined base oil in there. They are rated and tested, and nobody say they have to tell you about it, so they didn't.

I wouldn't be surprised if selling them as bunker fuel is cheaper than re-refining them into base oil or any other petroleum product, especially if they are contaminated with brake fluid.

 

[P10crew]

Panda I think Mobil would have to tell us that a certain % is recycled.