Recommended a motorcycle oil to help with notchy shifting .

C

Chris142

Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
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Location
Apple Valley, California
My Suzuki LTZ 400 quad has always had notchy shifting. It's almost impossible to find neutral.

It's a shared sump and calls for JASO- MA oil . Currantly has Amsoil 10w40 metric motorcycle oil in it and is very bad with this oil.
 
Chris142 said:
My Suzuki LTZ 400 quad has always had notchy shifting. It's almost impossible to find neutral.

It's a shared sump and calls for JASO- MA oil . Currantly has Amsoil 10w40 metric motorcycle oil in it and is very bad with this oil.
Click to expand...
Amsoil 20-50 motorcycle oil shifts better than the Mobil 1 Mc oil in my bike . Perhaps an automobile oil would shift better. Dunno if 400cc would slip the clutch.
 
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Chris142 said:
Think a thicker oil would help with the notchy shifting?
Click to expand...
Dunno. Thinking back, I do think the Mobil 1 was 10-40. I think more friction modifiers would make the transmission shift better up to the power point that it caused the clutch to slip.
 
FZ1 said:
Dunno. Thinking back, I do think the Mobil 1 was 10-40. I think more friction modifiers would make the transmission shift better up to the power point that it caused the clutch to slip.
Click to expand...
In my overall experience, 20w50 is the best shift feel I've had versus 10w40. Mobil 1 4T 10w40 didn't lose any shift feel over 5,000 OCIs, but it doesn't feel the same as Mobil 1 20w50, Amsoil 20w50 or Redline 20w50.

Even within the 20w50 oils, I've swapped back and forth enough to notice there's a difference within that grade. The feeling one way or the other isn't detrimental, it's just different.

Currently the ZRX 1200 is a guinea pig for Super Tech 20w50. 1,400 miles since the August oil change. I noticed a lighter shift lever feel from the get-go with this oil. According to VOA, it's on the lighter side of a 50 grade, almost down to the upper end of a 40 grade. Don't know if that has anything to do with it however intuition says it might.
 
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FZ1 said:
Dunno. Thinking back, I do think the Mobil 1 was 10-40. I think more friction modifiers would make the transmission shift better up to the power point that it caused the clutch to slip.
Click to expand...
I have been riding since 1977 and have never had a clutch slip from using automotive oil.
 
Chris142 said:
I have been riding since 1977 and have never had a clutch slip from using automotive oil.
Click to expand...

I have to concur that I haven't heard any more or less about automotive oils causing slippage in motorcycles than I have I heard of slippage with different motorcycle oils.

The magic pixie dust that is a friction modifier still hasn't been pointed out.
 
Greenbeforeblue said:
Notchy shifting?

I'd start with a clutch adjustment, and not at the lever.
Click to expand...
I have done that. It makes no difference. I sometimes wonder if one or more of the clutch plates could be bent or somehow damaged and is causing the problem.

Another though is if the previous owner stomped on the shifter like I see people do when stopped and bent something internally..... Hope not.

I don't get to ride it much anymore. Usually just to access the S/E corner of my property as I'm too fat and old to walk down into that gully anymore.
 
Common shifting issues and potential causes gleaned from the net:

Motorcycle shift quality refers to how smooth, precise, and responsive
your motorcycle's gearbox operates when changing gears A good shift
feels effortless and predictable, while poor shifting can manifest as
rough engagement, missed gears, or difficulty in changing gears
altogether.

Rough Shifting (especially 1st and 2nd gear): This is common in many
motorcycles, often presenting with a "thump" or slight lunge into
first gear. It can be exacerbated by: Dragging clutch: The clutch not
fully disengaging. External shift linkage problems: Improperly
adjusted shift pedal linkage. Shifting too early: Not allowing the
engine to reach optimal RPMs for a smooth shift.

Difficulty Shifting: Stiffness or resistance when changing gears can
be due to: Clutch cable issues: A stiff or worn-out clutch cable. Low
or poor-quality gear oil: Insufficient lubrication can lead to gear
shift problems. Transmission troubles: Worn-out gear components or
bent shift forks. Incorrect shift lever position: Not ideal for the
rider's foot.

Slipping Gears: When the motorcycle unexpectedly shifts out of gear,
indicating potential issues like worn or damaged gear components.
Unresponsive Transmission: The inability to shift gears, possibly due
to a broken clutch cable or internal transmission wear. Unusual Noises
(clicking, clunking, grinding): These sounds often point to worn
components or insufficient lubrication.

Improving shift quality:

Proper Shifting Technique: Preloading the shifter: Applying slight
pressure to the shift lever before engaging the clutch for a quicker
shift. Smooth clutch operation: Gradual and smooth clutch engagement
and release. Throttle control: Rolling off the throttle while shifting
and smoothly rolling it back on as the clutch engages. Matching RPMs:
Coordinating throttle action with clutch release to match engine speed
to the new gear speed. Regular Maintenance: Ensure proper clutch cable
adjustment, gear oil level and quality, chain tension, and
lubrication. Proper Footwear: Wearing appropriate motorcycle shoes
that allow for smooth shift lever engagement. Quick Shifters: For
quicker and smoother shifts without using the clutch or rolling off
the throttle.

Important Notes:

It is generally recommended to use the clutch when shifting to prevent
wear on the transmission. While skipping gears is possible, it should
be done carefully and with proper clutch engagement to avoid abrupt
changes in speed. Consult your motorcycle's owner's manual for
specific instructions and recommendations. If experiencing persistent
shifting problems, it's best to have your motorcycle checked by a
professional mechanic.

How to review shifter angle and shoe size, then optimize or assess if different parts are required.


1 tip to make your motorcycle shifts quicker & smoother


Ducati V4 How to change gears on a motorbike
 
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Greenbeforeblue said:
Notchy shifting?

I'd start with a clutch adjustment, and not at the lever.
Click to expand...

I agree...
After 50 years dealing with riding and racing customers who complained
about shift quality the clutch and not oil fixed the problem... Manufactures
warn owners that our gears can't shift smoothly if our clutch is part
way engaged... check for unwanted clutch drag...

Here are the steps how to check and eliminate unwanted clutch drag...

1 Place your bike on the center stand...

2 Start engine and establish a steady idle at 212ºF (operating temp)...

3 Squeeze in the clutch lever and shift into first gear...

4 Continue holding in the clutch lever and note if the rear wheel coast to stop or not...
if it continues spinning that's unwanted drag... adjust...


To adjust a cable equipped bike turn the small knob clock wise (out)
1/4 turn and test for clutch drag... if your bike is equipped with
hydraulics bleed system for bubbles...


Ultimately you want the rear wheel to coast to a stop when the engine
is idling and first gear selected with the clutch lever is squeezed in...


A tip on shift TECHNIQUE...

I think we are after the same thing... smooth shift without upsetting
the suspension... the secret is moving the foot quicker than clutch or
throttle... go easy with the clutch and throttle but move your foot
quick... but worry there is no such thing as too quick... its early
form of seem less shifting...
 
Shift quality has ALMOST nothing to do with the oil and transmission. It’s all about how the oil releases between the clutch plates. The more drag between plates, the worse it feels and the more trouble finding N. This is proven on a Harley with separate transmission and primary (clutch), and engine cases. When ATF is used in the primary the shifting is incredible. As ATF is designed to release in wet clutches, with a noticeable decrease (from minor to huge), when using motor oil in there. What is used in the transmission (motor oil, 75W90 - 80W140 gear oil), makes a difference, much much less.
 
Jimiii said:
Shift quality has ALMOST nothing to do with the oil and transmission. It’s all about how the oil releases between the clutch plates. The more drag between plates, the worse it feels and the more trouble finding N. This is proven on a Harley with separate transmission and primary (clutch), and engine cases. When ATF is used in the primary the shifting is incredible. As ATF is designed to release in wet clutches, with a noticeable decrease (from minor to huge), when using motor oil in there. What is used in the transmission (motor oil, 75W90 - 80W140 gear oil), makes a difference, much much less.
Click to expand...
Harley's are entirely different beasts than the shared sump.

A shared sump can't use ATF, which is self evident. Despite it working better as a specific primary fluid in a Harley as per what you have shared.

The discussion is more around oils that perform all three at the same time which shear/wear while performing functions that a Harley has isolated unto themselves.

Look forward to hearing what the OP finds going to a heavier oil/different oil. In my opinion, a heavier oil is worth giving a try.
 
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Along with the previously mentioned clutch adjustments, HPL MATV has been a significant shift improvement on my wife’s Rebel 1100, though I will admit her’s is a DCT. I hated how notchy my 6 speed Goldwing was and sold it before I had an opportunity to use HPL in it. I previously used a popular and well known synthetic motorcycle oil manufacturer and the shifting was not as great as I was led to believe it would be.
 
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