Recommendations for 20W-50 motor oil
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I am also using 15w40 diesel oil in gas cars, but most of the ones I use are SM/SN rated, meaning they conform to the later ZDDP level requirements. I don't believe 20w50 have to have low ZDDP. That's probably the biggest difference along with the 50 grade at operating temperature (and the associated HTHS rating).
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My 20W50 recommendations are GTX and PYB.
Go Synthetic
I'll bug you. Most synthetic nowadays is Group-3.
Group-3 synthetic is ultra refined conventional* (see hydrocracking.)
Conventional oil is referred to as Group-2
my vote?
50 weights:
Mobil 1 15w50
Valvoline Maxlife 20w50
Castrol GTX 20w50
40 weights:
Literally any 15w40 Heavy Duty (Diesel) Engine Oil
Literally any 5w40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil
I'm leery to suggest 10w40s, because if you need oil pressure and suspect the oil could shear, then something that starts at 3.8 or 3.9 HTHS might degrade too much (3.5 or so.) Once the HTHS falls too low, insufficient oil pressure might soon follow (I don't know this car's spec'd weight.)
The CK-4 rated HDEO 40-weights should stay >3.9
If you need a lot of ZDDP, here are some options:
Rotella T4, T5, T6 (HDEO)
Valvoline (HDEO)
Ford Motorcraft HDEO
Kendall Super-D XA (HDEO)
Mobil 1 15w-50
Maybe he suggested the conventional to indirectly force you to replenish the antiwear additive pack on a regular basis? Hey, that would be an incentive for me.
*"ultra refined" being the simplified terminology
Group-3 synthetic is ultra refined conventional* (see hydrocracking.)
Conventional oil is referred to as Group-2
my vote?
50 weights:
Mobil 1 15w50
Valvoline Maxlife 20w50
Castrol GTX 20w50
40 weights:
Literally any 15w40 Heavy Duty (Diesel) Engine Oil
Literally any 5w40 Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oil
I'm leery to suggest 10w40s, because if you need oil pressure and suspect the oil could shear, then something that starts at 3.8 or 3.9 HTHS might degrade too much (3.5 or so.) Once the HTHS falls too low, insufficient oil pressure might soon follow (I don't know this car's spec'd weight.)
The CK-4 rated HDEO 40-weights should stay >3.9
If you need a lot of ZDDP, here are some options:
Rotella T4, T5, T6 (HDEO)
Valvoline (HDEO)
Ford Motorcraft HDEO
Kendall Super-D XA (HDEO)
Mobil 1 15w-50
Maybe he suggested the conventional to indirectly force you to replenish the antiwear additive pack on a regular basis? Hey, that would be an incentive for me.
*"ultra refined" being the simplified terminology
Originally Posted by Building3
The person I talked to said they would only recommend their 5w-50 as it was the only one of their oils with enough zddp for flat tappets.
I'm calling BS on that. That person was in CYA mode. There are still hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of cars with flat tappets running around on regular SM/SN oil as you read this.
The person I talked to said they would only recommend their 5w-50 as it was the only one of their oils with enough zddp for flat tappets.
I'm calling BS on that. That person was in CYA mode. There are still hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of cars with flat tappets running around on regular SM/SN oil as you read this.
Breaking in a flat tappet cam is much different than maintaining a broken in flat tappet cam. Different formulas are required for each, the latter being much more forgiving. I run my 1947 Ford Tractor on SN oils with zero issue. I've also ran many old iron Ford V8's on regular Valvoline white bottle and Castrol GTX with no issue. The cams were broken in correctly though.
Thanks for the input. I don't want to hassle with the risk of leaks so synthetics are out, I don't need cold weather starting capability so I am fine with a 15w or 20w. I might as well stay safe with high zddp. I think that narrows it down to just about any diesel 15w-40 or the Valvoline VR1. Both are easy to get at reasonable prices here or Amazon.
Originally Posted by benjy
20W50 is stout oil as it starts with a 20W base oil + even conventional needs few viscosity improvers, BUT it will prolly NOT start in the cold, especially conventional!! i would give Mobil I 15-50 a go for colder weather being thinner at cold temps + since its synthetic but only group III it forms little wax when cold. RedLine real synthetic 15-50 would be a top choice if you feel the $$$$$ is worth it, prolly one of the best oil blender these days!!
You make no sense. Enough said.
20W50 is stout oil as it starts with a 20W base oil + even conventional needs few viscosity improvers, BUT it will prolly NOT start in the cold, especially conventional!! i would give Mobil I 15-50 a go for colder weather being thinner at cold temps + since its synthetic but only group III it forms little wax when cold. RedLine real synthetic 15-50 would be a top choice if you feel the $$$$$ is worth it, prolly one of the best oil blender these days!!
You make no sense. Enough said.
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Breaking in a flat tappet cam is much different than maintaining a broken in flat tappet cam. Different formulas are required for each, the latter being much more forgiving. I run my 1947 Ford Tractor on SN oils with zero issue. I've also ran many old iron Ford V8's on regular Valvoline white bottle and Castrol GTX with no issue. The cams were broken in correctly though.
I agree with you but there has been a decade of shady tree mechanics spreading thier bunk while receiving revenue from additive companies and blenders for zenk. This is even for cars with engines built in the 60's when the spec oil was a group I with about 200-600PPM of ZDDP. Some how ZDDP 600 to 800 PPM in a blend is not enough "zenk".
Breaking in a flat tappet cam is much different than maintaining a broken in flat tappet cam. Different formulas are required for each, the latter being much more forgiving. I run my 1947 Ford Tractor on SN oils with zero issue. I've also ran many old iron Ford V8's on regular Valvoline white bottle and Castrol GTX with no issue. The cams were broken in correctly though.
I agree with you but there has been a decade of shady tree mechanics spreading thier bunk while receiving revenue from additive companies and blenders for zenk. This is even for cars with engines built in the 60's when the spec oil was a group I with about 200-600PPM of ZDDP. Some how ZDDP 600 to 800 PPM in a blend is not enough "zenk".
Originally Posted by Building3
I was told that the best weight oil for an old Mercedes engine 2.2L in-line 6 would be "a good 20w-50 conventional motor oil." Any recommendations? Thanks
Any oil today is "good" compared to anything available in the first years of this Mercs life, so forget that. Define conventional, and you will not worry about that part either. A 20w50 is fine to the 20w limits. I'm pretty sure there is more to life than ZDDP, but I can get banned for discussing religion...
An HDEO of appropriate winter rating would be my suggestion.
I was told that the best weight oil for an old Mercedes engine 2.2L in-line 6 would be "a good 20w-50 conventional motor oil." Any recommendations? Thanks
Any oil today is "good" compared to anything available in the first years of this Mercs life, so forget that. Define conventional, and you will not worry about that part either. A 20w50 is fine to the 20w limits. I'm pretty sure there is more to life than ZDDP, but I can get banned for discussing religion...
An HDEO of appropriate winter rating would be my suggestion.
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Breaking in a flat tappet cam is much different than maintaining a broken in flat tappet cam. Different formulas are required for each, the latter being much more forgiving. I run my 1947 Ford Tractor on SN oils with zero issue. I've also ran many old iron Ford V8's on regular Valvoline white bottle and Castrol GTX with no issue. The cams were broken in correctly though.
I agree with you but there has been a decade of shady tree mechanics spreading thier bunk while receiving revenue from additive companies and blenders for zenk. This is even for cars with engines built in the 60's when the spec oil was a group I with about 200-600PPM of ZDDP. Some how ZDDP 600 to 800 PPM in a blend is not enough "zenk".
This would explain my success with "run of the mill" oils in moderately powerful Ford V8's over the years. When I was young, I barely had the money to put an engine together, let alone spend $60-$70 on an oil change. Hence my junk got off the shelf oil. Never lost a cam.
I am in a better position financially than I was in my teens and twenties now, so I can spring for the break in oil, and the fancy feel good oil after break in, but as proven in my younger years it's not a necessity. When I was young I thought VR-1 was expensive!
To the OP, I believe VR-1 to be the best possible option, it has the specs and the reputation, plus I'm a big fan of Valvoline. They are after all, the inventor of "motor oil", as it were. Not trying to persuade or dissuade, I have also had great results with Castrol GTX 20W-50, I have used it in my tractor once, and have a video of the tractor starting at -12F with 20w-50 Castrol in the pan. It wasn't pretty but it did start. My dad also used Castrol 20W-50 in the Torino that I now own. He raced that car all through the 70's and it survived, and it's still fast.
Originally Posted by 69Torino
Breaking in a flat tappet cam is much different than maintaining a broken in flat tappet cam. Different formulas are required for each, the latter being much more forgiving. I run my 1947 Ford Tractor on SN oils with zero issue. I've also ran many old iron Ford V8's on regular Valvoline white bottle and Castrol GTX with no issue. The cams were broken in correctly though.
I agree with you but there has been a decade of shady tree mechanics spreading thier bunk while receiving revenue from additive companies and blenders for zenk. This is even for cars with engines built in the 60's when the spec oil was a group I with about 200-600PPM of ZDDP. Some how ZDDP 600 to 800 PPM in a blend is not enough "zenk".
This would explain my success with "run of the mill" oils in moderately powerful Ford V8's over the years. When I was young, I barely had the money to put an engine together, let alone spend $60-$70 on an oil change. Hence my junk got off the shelf oil. Never lost a cam.
I am in a better position financially than I was in my teens and twenties now, so I can spring for the break in oil, and the fancy feel good oil after break in, but as proven in my younger years it's not a necessity. When I was young I thought VR-1 was expensive!
To the OP, I believe VR-1 to be the best possible option, it has the specs and the reputation, plus I'm a big fan of Valvoline. They are after all, the inventor of "motor oil", as it were. Not trying to persuade or dissuade, I have also had great results with Castrol GTX 20W-50, I have used it in my tractor once, and have a video of the tractor starting at -12F with 20w-50 Castrol in the pan. It wasn't pretty but it did start. My dad also used Castrol 20W-50 in the Torino that I now own. He raced that car all through the 70's and it survived, and it's still fast.
20W50 ... in Michigan winter?
I'm sorry but maybe you should check that advice you're getting, Mr. Building.
I'm sorry but maybe you should check that advice you're getting, Mr. Building.
If you plan on driving in the winter i would use 5W-50, or Rotella T6 5W-40, if it's a summer only car then VR1 20W-50 would undoubtably be the best.
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No winter driving except for days like today where it is 52 degrees. The car is in a heated garage so I do not need to worry about cold starts. it's never seen freezing temperatures. VR1 20w-50 looks like a safe bet. I understand that diesel oils have more detergent. Not sure I need that. I will pop the valve cover off and see how things look. if clean, then VR1 if not, then diesel oil. Thanks for the responses.
Diesel HDEOs do contain more detergents and dispersants as they have to be able to deal with having lots of soot in the oil without it affecting lubrication ir creating deposits.
However VR1 20W-50 meets ACEA A3/B4, this means that he minimum TBN it has to have is 10
TBN is a measure of the oils' hability to neutralize acids in the oil, and is also a rough indicator of how much active additive an oil has.
Vr1 comes in two versions, the normal one and the "Non Street Legal" one.
NSL VR1 has lots of Zinc and Phos, but little detergents as it is meant to be run in race applications and changed very often ( 300-500 miles )
The regular VR1 though has plenty of detergents aswell as Zinc & Phos.
However VR1 20W-50 meets ACEA A3/B4, this means that he minimum TBN it has to have is 10
TBN is a measure of the oils' hability to neutralize acids in the oil, and is also a rough indicator of how much active additive an oil has.
Vr1 comes in two versions, the normal one and the "Non Street Legal" one.
NSL VR1 has lots of Zinc and Phos, but little detergents as it is meant to be run in race applications and changed very often ( 300-500 miles )
The regular VR1 though has plenty of detergents aswell as Zinc & Phos.
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I remember the VR1 (street legal conventional) used to be dirt cheap. It was the lowest priced oil at AZ. I think it was around $3 a quart,cheaper than the other conventionals. I'm sure by now though it has gon up. This was back when it was only available in 20W50,50,and 60.
Another oil you can try is Pennzoil GT 25W50. You can order it much cheaper at Walmart.com. It's a detergent motor oil just like street legal version VR1. It's supposed to have a ton of moly and zinc.
https://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-25W-50-Racing-Oil-Performance/dp/B00B2IO58W#customerReviews
Another oil you can try is Pennzoil GT 25W50. You can order it much cheaper at Walmart.com. It's a detergent motor oil just like street legal version VR1. It's supposed to have a ton of moly and zinc.
https://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-25W-50-Racing-Oil-Performance/dp/B00B2IO58W#customerReviews
Stick to an HDEO or a high-ZDDP oil like Castrol Edge 5-50 or M1 5-50(supposedly service fill for the Ford GT and Lexus LFA)/15-50. That's if that Benz uses solid lifters, Mercedes was a proponent of hydraulic lifters.
Modern 20-50s use the add packs of API SN-rated oils in the interest of protecting the cats(and many old cars do burn oil) but there might not be enough ZDDP to protect solid lifters. However, modern 20W-50s do have high HTHS and low NOACK values, and you can get away with it. I know someone who runs O'Reilly 20-50 in a VW Bus. It runs just fine.
Modern 20-50s use the add packs of API SN-rated oils in the interest of protecting the cats(and many old cars do burn oil) but there might not be enough ZDDP to protect solid lifters. However, modern 20W-50s do have high HTHS and low NOACK values, and you can get away with it. I know someone who runs O'Reilly 20-50 in a VW Bus. It runs just fine.
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