At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles. There was a spark of personality somewhere, and that kept me engaged with the vehicle and as a repeat buyer of GM cars. I can't speak about their vans or trucks.
Really, how reliable is a Chevy (2009 and up)?
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Originally Posted By: sciphi
At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles. There was a spark of personality somewhere, and that kept me engaged with the vehicle and as a repeat buyer of GM cars. I can't speak about their vans or trucks.
Its funny because this is what Honda or Mazda owners would say makes their cars special... I guess eventually most of us learn to like some part of our car's driving experience, just because we like driving. Personally I've found most GM products the epitome of an average and boring driving experience, but that's when I've been in the car for a short time. I've only owned one true GM product, an 81 Olds Omega, but overall, I eventually really liked that car for what it was. But I find that with every car we own, even though for most of them, the general "consensus" is that they are POS cars.
At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles. There was a spark of personality somewhere, and that kept me engaged with the vehicle and as a repeat buyer of GM cars. I can't speak about their vans or trucks.
Its funny because this is what Honda or Mazda owners would say makes their cars special... I guess eventually most of us learn to like some part of our car's driving experience, just because we like driving. Personally I've found most GM products the epitome of an average and boring driving experience, but that's when I've been in the car for a short time. I've only owned one true GM product, an 81 Olds Omega, but overall, I eventually really liked that car for what it was. But I find that with every car we own, even though for most of them, the general "consensus" is that they are POS cars.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sciphi
At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles. There was a spark of personality somewhere, and that kept me engaged with the vehicle and as a repeat buyer of GM cars. I can't speak about their vans or trucks.
Its funny because this is what Honda or Mazda owners would say makes their cars special... I guess eventually most of us learn to like some part of our car's driving experience, just because we like driving. Personally I've found most GM products the epitome of an average and boring driving experience, but that's when I've been in the car for a short time. I've only owned one true GM product, an 81 Olds Omega, but overall, I eventually really liked that car for what it was. But I find that with every car we own, even though for most of them, the general "consensus" is that they are POS cars.
I'm on my 3rd GM car with the Cruze. It's definitely not a POS, and frankly amazes me with how hard it can squeeze a gallon of premium unleaded. I like it, and I hope it outlives the other two. Those two lived into their teens before succumbing to rust. My Buick was mechanically impeccable, but the structure was shot.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles. There was a spark of personality somewhere, and that kept me engaged with the vehicle and as a repeat buyer of GM cars. I can't speak about their vans or trucks.
Its funny because this is what Honda or Mazda owners would say makes their cars special... I guess eventually most of us learn to like some part of our car's driving experience, just because we like driving. Personally I've found most GM products the epitome of an average and boring driving experience, but that's when I've been in the car for a short time. I've only owned one true GM product, an 81 Olds Omega, but overall, I eventually really liked that car for what it was. But I find that with every car we own, even though for most of them, the general "consensus" is that they are POS cars.
I'm on my 3rd GM car with the Cruze. It's definitely not a POS, and frankly amazes me with how hard it can squeeze a gallon of premium unleaded. I like it, and I hope it outlives the other two. Those two lived into their teens before succumbing to rust. My Buick was mechanically impeccable, but the structure was shot.
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: sciphi
At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles.
Its funny because this is what Honda or Mazda owners would say makes their cars special... I guess eventually most of us learn to like some part of our car's driving experience, just because we like driving.
That's probably fair. I would say that both of our current vehicles have more personality and "a flair for the road" than any of the multitude of GM vehicles I've owned in the past. However, to be fair, I haven't owned a GM vehicle newer than 2001 (but I have driven many).
The Acura seemed to yearn for driving. It made you want to drive. The first summer we owned it, we took a long trip up to Pennsylvania and it just danced along the 2-lane mountain roads, a stark contrast to the minivan we previously sold...and I was sold. I decided I wanted the same for my car, and traded the Camry for the Honda.
No other brand has given me the combination of fun-to-drive and cheap-to-own than these cars have.
Originally Posted By: sciphi
At least the GM cars I've owned and driven for long periods of time have always had something intangible about them that I've never felt driving another automaker's vehicles.
Its funny because this is what Honda or Mazda owners would say makes their cars special... I guess eventually most of us learn to like some part of our car's driving experience, just because we like driving.
That's probably fair. I would say that both of our current vehicles have more personality and "a flair for the road" than any of the multitude of GM vehicles I've owned in the past. However, to be fair, I haven't owned a GM vehicle newer than 2001 (but I have driven many).
The Acura seemed to yearn for driving. It made you want to drive. The first summer we owned it, we took a long trip up to Pennsylvania and it just danced along the 2-lane mountain roads, a stark contrast to the minivan we previously sold...and I was sold. I decided I wanted the same for my car, and traded the Camry for the Honda.
No other brand has given me the combination of fun-to-drive and cheap-to-own than these cars have.
Originally Posted By: ron917
Back in 2003, my wife insisted that we buy a Pontiac Montana. I was against it, because I knew how unreliable Amercian cars are. Turns out I was wrong. After 9 years and 120K miles, it has been very reliable.
The only weak spot has been front lower control arm bushings - they were shot at 70K, and are starting to tear again. Not a big deal, complete LCA assemblies are cheap and easy to replace. And the left rear power window motor is dead.
Other than that, it has only needed normal maintenance (fluids, filters, etc) and wear items like light bulbs, tires, brakes, shocks/struts and serpentine belt.
My buddy has had 2 Chevy Ventures(sams as the Montana). A '99 & '04 without too many issues. No IM/head gasket failures on either engine(3.4L)in 200K miles. The '99 was actually the better of the two vehicles being tighter, quieter, smoother and better riding with 70K + miles than the '04 was when new. He was dissapointed with the '04s lack of what the '99 had(better quality)
He buys them new and then gives them to his daughter after about 6-7 years(~70K mi) where, it's her that runs the Ventures up to the 200K mile mark with only minor issues along the way. She now has the '04 since 2011.
He bought an '11 Equinox 4cyl/FWD. The best vehicle he has ever owned(mostly all GM) he says! I like it too!
Back in 2003, my wife insisted that we buy a Pontiac Montana. I was against it, because I knew how unreliable Amercian cars are. Turns out I was wrong. After 9 years and 120K miles, it has been very reliable.
The only weak spot has been front lower control arm bushings - they were shot at 70K, and are starting to tear again. Not a big deal, complete LCA assemblies are cheap and easy to replace. And the left rear power window motor is dead.
Other than that, it has only needed normal maintenance (fluids, filters, etc) and wear items like light bulbs, tires, brakes, shocks/struts and serpentine belt.
My buddy has had 2 Chevy Ventures(sams as the Montana). A '99 & '04 without too many issues. No IM/head gasket failures on either engine(3.4L)in 200K miles. The '99 was actually the better of the two vehicles being tighter, quieter, smoother and better riding with 70K + miles than the '04 was when new. He was dissapointed with the '04s lack of what the '99 had(better quality)
He buys them new and then gives them to his daughter after about 6-7 years(~70K mi) where, it's her that runs the Ventures up to the 200K mile mark with only minor issues along the way. She now has the '04 since 2011.
He bought an '11 Equinox 4cyl/FWD. The best vehicle he has ever owned(mostly all GM) he says! I like it too!
Two sets of lower control arm bushings in 120kmiles? Plus struts? That seems like a fair amount, to me anyhow. I had the wheel bearings and struts done on my VW at the 133k mark, and wrote it off as a typical VW repair.
I guess it's still "reliable", in that it didn't strand you. But having to do suspension work prior to 100k strikes me as shoddy design. Tolerable in the 100-150k mark, and acceptable/expected after that.
Or am I expecting too much? Back when I was driving 32k+ per year, I'd think it to be unacceptable!
I guess it's still "reliable", in that it didn't strand you. But having to do suspension work prior to 100k strikes me as shoddy design. Tolerable in the 100-150k mark, and acceptable/expected after that.
Or am I expecting too much? Back when I was driving 32k+ per year, I'd think it to be unacceptable!
Really depends on the type of use.
ls1mike
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Originally Posted By: supton
Two sets of lower control arm bushings in 120kmiles? Plus struts? That seems like a fair amount, to me anyhow. I had the wheel bearings and struts done on my VW at the 133k mark, and wrote it off as a typical VW repair.
I guess it's still "reliable", in that it didn't strand you. But having to do suspension work prior to 100k strikes me as shoddy design. Tolerable in the 100-150k mark, and acceptable/expected after that.
Or am I expecting too much? Back when I was driving 32k+ per year, I'd think it to be unacceptable!
I did the front wheel bearings on my 02 TDI twice in 80,000 miles, and I live in the Pacnorwest, mile weather smooth roads, the sturts were done at 80,000. Just depends. I would bet most cars approaching the 100,000 mile mark need shocks/struts. They get overlooked often on a lot of cars. Having said that. My old 89 GMC 1 ton didn't get shocks or struts in the 180,000 miles I owned it. It did however get wheel bearings at 170,000 and one ball joint. Every vehicle is different.
Two sets of lower control arm bushings in 120kmiles? Plus struts? That seems like a fair amount, to me anyhow. I had the wheel bearings and struts done on my VW at the 133k mark, and wrote it off as a typical VW repair.
I guess it's still "reliable", in that it didn't strand you. But having to do suspension work prior to 100k strikes me as shoddy design. Tolerable in the 100-150k mark, and acceptable/expected after that.
Or am I expecting too much? Back when I was driving 32k+ per year, I'd think it to be unacceptable!
I did the front wheel bearings on my 02 TDI twice in 80,000 miles, and I live in the Pacnorwest, mile weather smooth roads, the sturts were done at 80,000. Just depends. I would bet most cars approaching the 100,000 mile mark need shocks/struts. They get overlooked often on a lot of cars. Having said that. My old 89 GMC 1 ton didn't get shocks or struts in the 180,000 miles I owned it. It did however get wheel bearings at 170,000 and one ball joint. Every vehicle is different.
Originally Posted By: JGW
I've put roughly around 4k in my 98 chevy tahoe LS, which I've owned for 190k miles. The 02 VW Jetta TDI, which I've owned since new, has cost 8k in repairs.
If I'm honest this does not surprise me at all.
It is why I tell people to stay away from VW if they prefer to not be dumping their $ into car repairs.
I've put roughly around 4k in my 98 chevy tahoe LS, which I've owned for 190k miles. The 02 VW Jetta TDI, which I've owned since new, has cost 8k in repairs.
If I'm honest this does not surprise me at all.
It is why I tell people to stay away from VW if they prefer to not be dumping their $ into car repairs.
ls1mike
$50 Site Donor 2025
Not to change topic but every GM I have ever owned, heck every Mopar I have ever owned was better than my MISERABLE 02 Jetta TDI. We sold it and bought a 2003 CTS with 33,000 miles on it. We drove it until 154,000 miles in that time I did the water pump, plugs, wires and one crank position sensor which was common on the 3.2.
I still think that's too soon to do suspension work. 70k for bushings? It's not an off-road car. I wasn't pleased when my car had to have front wheel bearings done at 105kmiles.
Speaking of VW's I'll probably hit about $4k in repairs total (not including maintance) this summer, that'll be over the 8years/260kmile mark. Not stellar but "acceptable". I oughta go back over the recepts and see what it really cost me.
Speaking of VW's I'll probably hit about $4k in repairs total (not including maintance) this summer, that'll be over the 8years/260kmile mark. Not stellar but "acceptable". I oughta go back over the recepts and see what it really cost me.
Where I live if you hit 100,000 before doing suspension work your lucky. In saying that at 196k my suspension is all original except struts and outter tierods. I check everything periodically and its all still tight surprisingly. Every GM car I've had has been great. Except my 96 cavalier. 2 months into ownership through a rod 210,000 miles. 4 months later junk yard engine blew the head. I don't hold it against GM the car was neglected and the reason the head blew was because whoever put plugs in it before I got it did it to tight and cracked the head between spark plug and valve.when I put the motor in the plugs were hard to put in on a couple cylinders. I figured they were dirty from being in the junk yard. But nope ruined the head. Tough car though. Withbthe motor smoking and knocking so bad i couldnt here the person in the passenger seat and the oil light on it made it 25 miles to the shop where I did the work.
I'm currently renting a 2012 Malibu. It's got 20k on it and its suspension has a weird rattle. The other one I rented did the same thing. When the wheel is turned, doesn't do it. I suspect a design issue. The savannah river street cobblestone roads really don't do well with this car. This is where the better Asian cars shine, in feel of quality.
The cheap looking plastic is a real turn off. The inner door handles are not firmly affixed. Typical GM quality. However it drives well, is quiet, gets 26mpg and the power train is the most refined 4 cylinder GM has ever built.
A rental 4 cyl Camry is better in some ways, and more refined. But not by as much as in the past.
I'd guess that the Camry is also considerably more reliable.
The cheap looking plastic is a real turn off. The inner door handles are not firmly affixed. Typical GM quality. However it drives well, is quiet, gets 26mpg and the power train is the most refined 4 cylinder GM has ever built.
A rental 4 cyl Camry is better in some ways, and more refined. But not by as much as in the past.
I'd guess that the Camry is also considerably more reliable.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm currently renting a 2012 Malibu. It's got 20k on it and its suspension has a weird rattle. The other one I rented did the same thing. When the wheel is turned, doesn't do it. I suspect a design issue. The savannah river street cobblestone roads really don't do well with this car. This is where the better Asian cars shine, in feel of quality.
The cheap looking plastic is a real turn off. The inner door handles are not firmly affixed. Typical GM quality. However it drives well, is quiet, gets 26mpg and the power train is the most refined 4 cylinder GM has ever built.
A rental 4 cyl Camry is better in some ways, and more refined. But not by as much as in the past.
I'd guess that the Camry is also considerably more reliable.
I was lost at "Typical GM quality".
We just had a rental camry, when my cruze was getting the dent from the girl hit it with her door fixed. It had 35k miles on it, adn the interior rattled like my cavalier did, the CEL glared at you, and the brake discs were warped.
I helped a co-worker and her mom car shop the other day and I looked at a 2012 Malibu in the showroom. The difference between the 2011 my Grandmother has and the 2012 is immense, and I was already a fan of the 2011. The interior of the Camry doesn't come anywhere close to the Malibu imo, it's bland, and uses worse plastics.
The 2008-2011 Malibu's are also one of the most reliabe vehicles GM has ever made. Are you sure it's a 2012? I find it hard to believe that you already found a 2012 (which has only been out for a month or so) with 20k miles.
I'm currently renting a 2012 Malibu. It's got 20k on it and its suspension has a weird rattle. The other one I rented did the same thing. When the wheel is turned, doesn't do it. I suspect a design issue. The savannah river street cobblestone roads really don't do well with this car. This is where the better Asian cars shine, in feel of quality.
The cheap looking plastic is a real turn off. The inner door handles are not firmly affixed. Typical GM quality. However it drives well, is quiet, gets 26mpg and the power train is the most refined 4 cylinder GM has ever built.
A rental 4 cyl Camry is better in some ways, and more refined. But not by as much as in the past.
I'd guess that the Camry is also considerably more reliable.
I was lost at "Typical GM quality".
We just had a rental camry, when my cruze was getting the dent from the girl hit it with her door fixed. It had 35k miles on it, adn the interior rattled like my cavalier did, the CEL glared at you, and the brake discs were warped.
I helped a co-worker and her mom car shop the other day and I looked at a 2012 Malibu in the showroom. The difference between the 2011 my Grandmother has and the 2012 is immense, and I was already a fan of the 2011. The interior of the Camry doesn't come anywhere close to the Malibu imo, it's bland, and uses worse plastics.
The 2008-2011 Malibu's are also one of the most reliabe vehicles GM has ever made. Are you sure it's a 2012? I find it hard to believe that you already found a 2012 (which has only been out for a month or so) with 20k miles.
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Originally Posted By: Nick R
Cujet said:
Originally Posted By: bustednutz
In all my years in the car biz, I have always found GM vehicles to be very basic transportation. As much as they try to be upscale or innovative, they always seem 5 steps behind. If you are looking for basic and inexpensive transportation, then go for it.
I have no idea how reliable they are, I don't own one. But they look simple and basic enough to fix with all that old technology they use.
Maybe if the put some of that UAW money to R&D use they'd actually come up with something good.
OK.....not going to go off on that rant......sorry.
Really! Get over yourself.
In all my years in the car biz, I have always found GM vehicles to be very basic transportation. As much as they try to be upscale or innovative, they always seem 5 steps behind. If you are looking for basic and inexpensive transportation, then go for it.
I have no idea how reliable they are, I don't own one. But they look simple and basic enough to fix with all that old technology they use.
Maybe if the put some of that UAW money to R&D use they'd actually come up with something good.
OK.....not going to go off on that rant......sorry.
Really! Get over yourself.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Cujet said:
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Cujet said:
I spent a week with a 2012 Buick Regal Hertz rental.
Quite a nice car, for what they are selling them for way better than a Camry or Accord.
A few interior bits were slightly off, but I'm pretty picky 95% of people would never notice. Nice car though, had the base motor a bit down on power IMHO. With the 260hp turbo charged 4 banger it really would have went nice.
Things have really changed, 5 years ago I wouldn't have thought it but right now in that segment I'd buy a Regal or Fusion before a Camry or Accord. Honda has been taking too many pennies out of their cars and Toyota's are quickly becoming dated old person rides. They have been using the same freaken window switch's and door handles for 20 years, time to upgrade Toyota.
Quite a nice car, for what they are selling them for way better than a Camry or Accord.
A few interior bits were slightly off, but I'm pretty picky 95% of people would never notice. Nice car though, had the base motor a bit down on power IMHO. With the 260hp turbo charged 4 banger it really would have went nice.
Things have really changed, 5 years ago I wouldn't have thought it but right now in that segment I'd buy a Regal or Fusion before a Camry or Accord. Honda has been taking too many pennies out of their cars and Toyota's are quickly becoming dated old person rides. They have been using the same freaken window switch's and door handles for 20 years, time to upgrade Toyota.
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