Really hard to pay for gas after 8 years of EVs.
- Thread starter macarose
- Start date
exactly, you have to divide the cost over all use. But I know people who put solar panels to power the house (and no more), then get an EV and count that as charging for free, while the electric bill is "for the house". I don't understand why they lie to themselves like that, maybe it impresses some people they drive for "free".
In my case, I researched solar, to one degree or another, for over 3 years. The solar project was part of a larger plan to minimize costs going forward, as I knew I would be retiring soon. At one point, in early 2018, the numbers were compelling so I pulled the trigger on the solar deal which included a new roof. While I thought I may buy an EV one day, this was not part of my calculations.
Unexpectedly we bought the 2018 Tesla Model 3 Mid Range in late December of that year. Is fueling free? The EV is icing on the cake; it serves to maximize the value of the solar investment; to realize ROI sooner and lower costs going forward. Pretty fair shake, right?
Well by that measure my electricity cost $0.0839
Except for so many fees added on it ends up being somewhere between .19 and $0.21 depending on the usage amount
There's no easy way directly compare
For example, I could buy the all electricity you want for $200 plan and then say it cost me free to charge my car which is true but not a comparable cost.
So while using the marginal cost is correct, it's usually nowhere close to the whole story. All in cost is much more comparable.
Or I can compare to my free gas prices from using reward points. Okay? I refuel my car for free. Beat that EV well maybe Jeff could with his solar LOL
-sent from phone
OK - the marginal cost includes fees that are associated with each kWh, but you would not include the “connection” fee that is fixed, for example.Well by that measure my electricity cost $0.0839
Except for so many fees added on it ends up being somewhere between .19 and $0.21 depending on the usage amount
There's no easy way directly compare
For example, I could buy the all electricity you want for $200 plan and then say it cost me free to charge my car which is true but not a comparable cost.
So while using the marginal cost is correct, it's usually nowhere close to the whole story. All in cost is much more comparable.
Or I can compare to my free gas prices from using reward points. Okay? I refuel my car for free. Beat that EV well maybe Jeff could with his solar LOL
-sent from phone
So, what does each additional kWh cost? That’s the marginal cost.
Not the total bill/total use - or “all in” - that’s not an accurate measure.
yes it is, but in the case I'm talking about he still has a $700 electric bill each month, and spent tens of thousands on the solar system. The system can power his house, or his cars, not both (in summer, it can't power the cars in winter). So the cars are not driving for free. It might still be cheap, but from what I counted it's not terribly cheap either. it would be better if he had more solar, but that initial investment won't last forever: the panels last but the electronics don't.
His arithmetic needs some work... He isn't the only one. I've talked to others whose solar projects failed to live up to expectations. And that's as nice as I can put it.
What in the heck is he doing to get a $700 bill?
converted everything to electric.
I have never charged my Mach E except at home. Peak power is about 24 cents per kwh, but I only charge on weekends when there is no peak period. So about 14 cents per kwh. Since we charge at mid day most of that power is coming from the solar panels. So much cheaper than gas.
However, lately I have been riding my e-bike to the office most days. I use the pedals, so the cost per mile is somewhere close to zero.
That seems insanely cheap.
but you are saying if you use an additional 200kwh you would pay 15$ more total?
or your bill for 800kwh would be 800x.075 + $30= ?$90
look at my junkheap of a bill.. generation just went up 60% in june.
I acknowledge
If your bill isnt a scampile like mine that might be easy to ascertain and more accurate for figuring electric vehicle cost consumption.
his marginal cost for car charging seems excessively low priced . for a bill without super off-peak rates or similar.
I was wrong earlier my rate is apparently 8.19 cents. and all in was under 17cents.
I must be getting some sort of credit or they took off a scam charge due to a lawsuit...
I'll have to look back a few months.
with the generation going up 60% I was expecting higher.
Last edited:
4WD
$50 site donor 2025
Think it had 22” wheels combined with a pretty stiff suspension …
This can be said for anything. I'd hate to have to pay for auto repairs or oil changes after having my shop and tools.
I'd hate to pay someone to mow my lawn if I've been doing it for years.
I'd hate to pay for a laundromat after having a washer and dryer.
I'd hate to pay rent (no equity) after having a mortgage.
Etc etc etc. We all adapt our budgets around what we consider "normal expenditures."
I promise you @macarose might avoid gas but thinks nothing of paying for a different good or service that the next guy says, "I can't imagine paying for THAT"
I'd hate to pay someone to mow my lawn if I've been doing it for years.
I'd hate to pay for a laundromat after having a washer and dryer.
I'd hate to pay rent (no equity) after having a mortgage.
Etc etc etc. We all adapt our budgets around what we consider "normal expenditures."
I promise you @macarose might avoid gas but thinks nothing of paying for a different good or service that the next guy says, "I can't imagine paying for THAT"
I pay 6.7¢/kWh on my “Super Off Peak” period; 11p-5a. And my utility gave me two free EVSEs ($500 each).
I’m never going back to ICE. Not for the cost, but it’s just such a vastly superior driving experience for me. Smooth, quiet, powerful, no shifting, no exhaust smell in my garage, almost no maintence, regen braking, etc, etc.
I’m never going back to ICE. Not for the cost, but it’s just such a vastly superior driving experience for me. Smooth, quiet, powerful, no shifting, no exhaust smell in my garage, almost no maintence, regen braking, etc, etc.
With her current use profile, and summer temps, and so on. If she were to suddenly have to start driving longer distances, or you lived somewhere where winter was 4-6 months rather than 4-6 weeks, everything changes.
I admit that, if one only takes short trips and is always home every single night, there are advantages to EVs that will never be challenged by ICE- unless one literally lives next door to a gas station, there's no refueling gas/diesel at home (other than the lucky farmers among us). But as soon as one is forced outside a radius of half the EV range, the convenience of charging at home is replaced by the inconvenience of needing to sit around potentially for hours to continue your trip, or even just to return home. Time is money, and every minute of charging away from home should be summed with actual cost against the comparison with gasoline.
Ex: If you make $100/hr at your job, and you're driving somewhere outside of battery range. In an ICE vehicle the fuel stop(s) total 20 minutes for the distance you need to travel, so time cost is ($100/hr / 20 min stop) = $33.33. In the EV, we'll be generous and say total charging time is 80 minutes, but that wasn't a full charge but instead just enough to get to your destination, since you can charge overnight there. Now we get ($100/hr / 80 min stop) = $133.33, in addition to the energy. This is one of the biggest reasons to me why non-local EVs make absolutely no sense for a business. Time ain't free even if the energy is cheaper!
I still do not understand why any manufacturer of EVs has not yet done an integration with an ICE (gas or diesel), where the ICE is nothing but a mobile charger. Running at a fixed RPM, the engine could be tuned to be extremely efficient while extending the range greatly. The other idea would be a split BEV mode, where either the EV side was prevented from assisting (anything at highway speeds), but the ICE would alternate between mobile charger (while in EV mode) and sole propulsion (highway).
There are uses where EVs make lots of sense. There are places where they also make no sense at all. In a use case like yours, build a true hybrid with both ICE and EV propulsion. Write the control software so anything below say 45mph is always battery mode, even 100% acceleration. Anytime the battery gets to say 10% and the vehicle is moving, kick on the ICE and charge until at least 30%. And finally, anything over 45mph is 100% ICE, but any extra current from the generator & regenerative braking goes towards topping the battery up. This seems like it would be an almost-unarguable solution for everyone until battery or other technology is ready to replace gasoline and diesel as the most convenient, most effective energy source for wildly varying transportation requirements.
If electricity was 7.5 cents a mile then I'd Just I get a hybrid car and pay 10 cents a mile for gas.
I pay more like 3 cents a kWh for my leaf.
I pay more like 3 cents a kWh for my leaf.
This is very true. When my daughter was four years old she really loved school. So I paid for two nursey schools so that she could enjoy learning and hopefully get ahead in life.
She soared like a rocket. In fact, she graduated with honors at Georgia Tech and was routinely outperforming yours truly by the time she reached high school.
I can give about a half-dozen examples where I probably zigged while most others would have zagged. If you want to spend your money, it's yours. Do with it as you like. Life's too short for prim lectures from the 'holier than thou' crowd.
Wait - are you trying to say that her new car works perfectly for her use pattern?With her current use profile, and summer temps, and so on. If she were to suddenly have to start driving longer distances, or you lived somewhere where winter was 4-6 months rather than 4-6 weeks, everything changes.
I admit that, if one only takes short trips and is always home every single night, there are advantages to EVs that will never be challenged by ICE- unless one literally lives next door to a gas station, there's no refueling gas/diesel at home (other than the lucky farmers among us). But as soon as one is forced outside a radius of half the EV range, the convenience of charging at home is replaced by the inconvenience of needing to sit around potentially for hours to continue your trip, or even just to return home. Time is money, and every minute of charging away from home should be summed with actual cost against the comparison with gasoline.
Ex: If you make $100/hr at your job, and you're driving somewhere outside of battery range. In an ICE vehicle the fuel stop(s) total 20 minutes for the distance you need to travel, so time cost is ($100/hr / 20 min stop) = $33.33. In the EV, we'll be generous and say total charging time is 80 minutes, but that wasn't a full charge but instead just enough to get to your destination, since you can charge overnight there. Now we get ($100/hr / 80 min stop) = $133.33, in addition to the energy. This is one of the biggest reasons to me why non-local EVs make absolutely no sense for a business. Time ain't free even if the energy is cheaper!
I still do not understand why any manufacturer of EVs has not yet done an integration with an ICE (gas or diesel), where the ICE is nothing but a mobile charger. Running at a fixed RPM, the engine could be tuned to be extremely efficient while extending the range greatly. The other idea would be a split BEV mode, where either the EV side was prevented from assisting (anything at highway speeds), but the ICE would alternate between mobile charger (while in EV mode) and sole propulsion (highway).
There are uses where EVs make lots of sense. There are places where they also make no sense at all. In a use case like yours, build a true hybrid with both ICE and EV propulsion. Write the control software so anything below say 45mph is always battery mode, even 100% acceleration. Anytime the battery gets to say 10% and the vehicle is moving, kick on the ICE and charge until at least 30%. And finally, anything over 45mph is 100% ICE, but any extra current from the generator & regenerative braking goes towards topping the battery up. This seems like it would be an almost-unarguable solution for everyone until battery or other technology is ready to replace gasoline and diesel as the most convenient, most effective energy source for wildly varying transportation requirements.
Geez - it’s almost like the mission requirements were thoughtfully analyzed before making the purchase…
Curious... What do you consider a short trip? How often do you or anyone you know drive more than, say 200 - 250 miles in one day?With her current use profile, and summer temps, and so on. If she were to suddenly have to start driving longer distances, or you lived somewhere where winter was 4-6 months rather than 4-6 weeks, everything changes.
I admit that, if one only takes short trips and is always home every single night, there are advantages to EVs that will never be challenged by ICE- unless one literally lives next door to a gas station, there's no refueling gas/diesel at home (other than the lucky farmers among us). But as soon as one is forced outside a radius of half the EV range, the convenience of charging at home is replaced by the inconvenience of needing to sit around potentially for hours to continue your trip, or even just to return home. Time is money, and every minute of charging away from home should be summed with actual cost against the comparison with gasoline.
Ex: If you make $100/hr at your job, and you're driving somewhere outside of battery range. In an ICE vehicle the fuel stop(s) total 20 minutes for the distance you need to travel, so time cost is ($100/hr / 20 min stop) = $33.33. In the EV, we'll be generous and say total charging time is 80 minutes, but that wasn't a full charge but instead just enough to get to your destination, since you can charge overnight there. Now we get ($100/hr / 80 min stop) = $133.33, in addition to the energy. This is one of the biggest reasons to me why non-local EVs make absolutely no sense for a business. Time ain't free even if the energy is cheaper!
I still do not understand why any manufacturer of EVs has not yet done an integration with an ICE (gas or diesel), where the ICE is nothing but a mobile charger. Running at a fixed RPM, the engine could be tuned to be extremely efficient while extending the range greatly. The other idea would be a split BEV mode, where either the EV side was prevented from assisting (anything at highway speeds), but the ICE would alternate between mobile charger (while in EV mode) and sole propulsion (highway).
There are uses where EVs make lots of sense. There are places where they also make no sense at all. In a use case like yours, build a true hybrid with both ICE and EV propulsion. Write the control software so anything below say 45mph is always battery mode, even 100% acceleration. Anytime the battery gets to say 10% and the vehicle is moving, kick on the ICE and charge until at least 30%. And finally, anything over 45mph is 100% ICE, but any extra current from the generator & regenerative braking goes towards topping the battery up. This seems like it would be an almost-unarguable solution for everyone until battery or other technology is ready to replace gasoline and diesel as the most convenient, most effective energy source for wildly varying transportation requirements.
I recently drove to Sac, then to Oakland Int Airport to drop someone off, then back to Los Gatos. I did stop after OAK for a quick top off while grabbing a Starbucks Chai. I charged for almost 15 minutes, but that was only because the gal in front of us couldn't make up her mind for coffee.
So that's one charge in over one year of this car's ownership; less than 1%. It added zero time to the trip, if you accept I would have stopped for a snack anyways. The amount of time and $$ saved over the past year as compared to, say our GS350, is a lot. Time is a big deal, at least to me.
IMO, living with these cars is not than what people think; it's better. Now, it certainly depends on each use case, but I have learned a lot. It is not what many seem to think it is. That's my experience.
Similar threads
