Re-defining when a car has "warmed up"

[Hirev]

Quote:
Related question: at what point is the oil "hot enough" to start using WOT or subjecting it to higher loads?
The late Smokey Yunick used to caution not to rev them up high till oil temperature hit at least 175 deg F. He was referring to race car engines and engines on dynos. But Kind of always use that as a target before getting on it in a performance engine.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Originally Posted By: bvance554
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I hear that someone tried to redline the S2000 within 1 minute after started and he could not rev pass 5500-6000 RPM. I normally do not rev pass 4500-5000 RPM until coolant temp is stabilized at around 180-185F after 4-5 miles or 7-10 minutes of driving.
Did the computer keep him from revving past that with a cold engine? Just curious. Never heard of it but it seems like a nive feature to program into a high revving engine.
Yes, every Honda I've ever owned has the lower redline until the motor is warm.

Yeah, the computer cut off the fuel when RPM approached 5500-6000 RPM, he could not engage VTEC until the coolant temp was above 150-160F, which is more than 3-4 minutes after cold start.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Hirev
Quote:
Related question: at what point is the oil "hot enough" to start using WOT or subjecting it to higher loads?
The late Smokey Yunick used to caution not to rev them up high till oil temperature hit at least 175 deg F. He was referring to race car engines and engines on dynos. But Kind of always use that as a target before getting on it in a performance engine.


I really miss that guy! But that is VERY old school advice based on old school oils.

My car will run 220-230F oil temp on the street easy. I've seen 300 at the track. Won't hurt a thing with a modern synthetic oil in the sump. With many higher performing cars the temp is a GOOD thing as fuel dilution is a big problem with wild tunes that essentially use fuel to control EGT's.

But as for 'warmed up' we use 150 degrees oil temp as our guide at the track. That's plenty to thin things down, and the heads and such are hot way before the temp gauge says anything meaningful.

 

[TallPaul]

The key is the metal is warmed up. My dad always told me not to REV it when the engine was cold because the shape of the cylinders was off because of contraction of the metal and that because most of the wear in occurred with a hot engine that you will generate more wear on the cold engine. (I don't know if I explained that very clearly).

Also, of course you want the oil to be flowing enough to provide adequate lubrication at the higher rpms. I don't know that the oil has to be fully warmed up to get on it, but surely wait for the water temperature to be all the way up as that indicates the block is warmed up enough to meet the criteria I explained above.

 

[hsd]

I dont have a oil temp gage on any of my cars, but I would want the oil temp to reach at least 212F just to boil off the moisture that condenses in there.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Artem
I never run my cars past 3,000 RPMs until about 10-15 minutes of driving. The temp gauge in my 06' Scion TC will show that the coolant has reached operating temp within 5 mins of the engine being started. It goes up quick. I know the same can't be said about the oil temp as well as the rest of the engine "loosening up".


My car has a variable redline which is pretty neat. A series of LED's in the cluster that start at 4K and go all the way to 7K that progressively disappear as the oil warms.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I'm normally around 195F. I've managed to get it to 212F a couple of times.


Breaking 95C oil temperatures in the old Audi 200 Turbo was almost impossible, even after a very sustained run at full boost on a hot evening. I guess that's what happens when the oil cooler is the size of the rad.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I'm normally around 195F. I've managed to get it to 212F a couple of times.


Breaking 95C oil temperatures in the old Audi 200 Turbo was almost impossible, even after a very sustained run at full boost on a hot evening. I guess that's what happens when the oil cooler is the size of the rad.

Mine is thermostatically controlled to around 90C I think. The one time it hit 100C it VERY quickly came back down to 90C under the same driving conditions, so I assume that the T-stat just opened

 

[Shannow]

My commute is interesting with respect to warm-up (coolant temp only).

3.5 km of forced sub 35MPH town, followed by another 6 miles of 65MPH, a half mile town bit to the car park...and naturally the reverse on the way home. Home is straight up to highway speeds.

Nissan (iron block, alloy head, diesel) scarcely gets warm in the town bit, but jumps as soon as the highway starts. On way home, it's straight up to temp on the highway.

Caprice (iron on iron) just seems to take time to get to temp, regardless of direction.

Something that I've oft wondered about you guys in the States with some ridiculous low temperatures is embrittlement of engine and drivetrain components.

Not allowed to overspeed the turbines, or apply significant pressure to steam pipes with them below 150C, as there's embrittlement problems with those alloys at ambient...wondering where the transition is in automotive use.

 

[Garak]

Probably right with respect to the thermostatic controlling. I believe the Audi was, too, but that was perhaps mostly noticeable in driving around town, then hitting the highway and watching it drop, as you noted. I wouldn't mind knowing my G's oil temperatures, though.

 

[dparm]

Agree that the VQ37's would be interesting since that thing is supposedly quite hard on oil.

BTW, after getting the slightly thinner Sustina into my car today, I noticed that the oil temp is only hitting 210ish as opposed to the 220s. I guess that Syntec 5w40 really is a thicker 40.

 

[MarkStock]

I'll be reading my oil temps in the weeks ahead now that I've gotten the ODBII set up. I'll try to record a graph of oil temp, coolant temp and transmission fluid temp.

Interesting that in my Taurus manual, it specifically mentioned that the engine would be at operating temperature after 20 miles of driving.

My Mercedes 5.5 does seem to get extremely hot. It'll be interesting to measure the oil temp on that. Mercedes have checking coolant level and quality as part of the annual service. I wonder if they expect it to have more chance of evaporating given the temps a few have mentioned here.

 

[SteveSRT8]

^^^Don't worry Mark, all that heat is a good thing. better economy and longer engine life are just two of the benefits of HOT engines.

No worries about the coolant evaporating. The real reason they test it is it offers a window into the engine's internal processes. Things like exhaust by products can tell you when bad things are happening inside the cooling system. Plus there are limits to the degradation of the coolant that the engineers want strictly observed, and these limits vary wildly with the user's patterns of operation.

 

[mechtech2]

Good running temps for oil integrate the 'boil off', or evaporative rate, plus flow.
For this, 175 and up is really good.

But for flow and lubrication alone, we are good with much lower temps [with the proper normal viscosity in the sump, of course].

So for lubrication, I have no problems stepping on the gas at 120F [oil] at all.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Agree that the VQ37's would be interesting since that thing is supposedly quite hard on oil.

BTW, after getting the slightly thinner Sustina into my car today, I noticed that the oil temp is only hitting 210ish as opposed to the 220s. I guess that Syntec 5w40 really is a thicker 40.

I don't have oil temp gauge on E430 but coolant gauge showed lower temp with thinner oil, up to 5-6C cooler with Pennzoil Platinum 5w20 vs Mobil 1 0W40 on highway. I suspect all along that oil temp is somewhat cooler with thinner oil.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Agree that the VQ37's would be interesting since that thing is supposedly quite hard on oil.


Of course, searching the various forums doesn't help much, because most people who have installed pressure and temperature gauges also installed a bunch of mods, which doesn't make the data applicable to me. The best guess I can come up with from reading an example or two with people who had unmodified cars was around 220 F, give or take. Of course, that doesn't say anything about driving habits or ambient conditions.

Keep us updated as to how the Sustina works out!

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: dparm
Now that I can see my car's oil temperature, it's finally becoming apparent that coolant temperature (i.e. the "temperature gauge") and oil temperature are very far apart when the car is cold.

Today my coolant gauge stabilized but the oil temperature hadn't even registered yet, meaning it was < 140 F. Ambient temp was 40 F. It took a good 10-15 more minutes of driving for the oil temp to stabilize around 220 F.


220F?

Even in 90F+ I've never seen my oil temp go over 204F. It generally runs around 185F.


You aren't running a turbo! Liz's GN will top 200 degrees oil temp even in cold weather. I have seen 300 on that car.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: dparm
Agree that the VQ37's would be interesting since that thing is supposedly quite hard on oil.


Of course, searching the various forums doesn't help much, because most people who have installed pressure and temperature gauges also installed a bunch of mods, which doesn't make the data applicable to me. The best guess I can come up with from reading an example or two with people who had unmodified cars was around 220 F, give or take. Of course, that doesn't say anything about driving habits or ambient conditions.

Keep us updated as to how the Sustina works out!



Just for grins, my good friend's stocker 370z routinely runs 220-230 in the city with normal driving. When whipped it just goes up until it hits limp mode.

Those engines are hard on oil, and they need supplemental oil cooling for the track without question.

 

[supton]

I have a Scanguage in the car, and this morning I decided to watch the water temp, via the Scanguage. I didn’t think to do this before starting, so as to see if the water temp was the same as ambient; for record it was 30F at home, and about 35F at work. Will have to repeat a few times to see if the Scangauge can indicate ambient temperature at startup.

Started, then drove 10 miles at 60mph, after which it hit about 160F. Coasted for quarter-mile for a turn, down to 142. Drove another 5 miles at 60mph, during which time I turned down the heat, and was rewarded with 170F. I had to coast a bit to get onto the highway, so I had to “get on it” to get up to 70mph, with an indicated water temp of about 165F or so. For the next 20ish miles it stayed between 170-180F – I saw 179F climbing one hill, and it could get down to 170F while coasting. I’d say I saw 173F for most of the time.

At work, I have a couple miles of stop and go, and the temp stayed at 170F the whole time; but it was 35F ambient now, and it had something like 45miles of driving. I stopped, and decided to check the radiator—the thermostat, which is granted 8 years old, is supposed to be 195F. Radiator was maybe 70F or so, and the top radiator hose was pressurized but I would say I’ve felt it more pressurized in the past. I do know there is an oil cooler on the car, which uses coolant, so I’m guessing oil temp probably followed water temp?

I guess I don’t have to worry about blocking the radiator off any more!

 

[mechtech2]

supton -
It sounds cold - much colder than a normal modern car, for sure. . You may have a cold thermostat in there.