Raybestos Element 3 Premium Brake Components?

[JeffKeryk]

I have used, with good results, the Element 3 pads and rotors on several Acuras; I have the pads on my piggy 01 Tundra.
1 year ago, maybe 27K, I installed them on my niece's '15 Odyssey EX-L. The car was bought and lived in Arlington, TX and in Santa Crux, CA (for the last 1.5 years).
The Oddy developed a shake at freeway speed braking. Turns out the rotors are probably warped; the rear brakes need servicing.

This was the 1st issue I have had with the Raybestos brake components. Dunno if I will use these again. Back to Centric, Akebono, etc.
Disappointing, but ya win some and ya lose some, I guess.

Sometimes I think factory stuff is a good way to go...

 

[doitmyself]

On rare occasions a rotor can have a bit of runout straight out of the box, which later develops into more pronounced pedal pulsations. Based on my education here from the better mechanics, I upped my brake job game with a cheap Harbor Freight clamp on dial gauge to check and/or index any runout.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

You have used them several times successfully, though.

If you do decide to try other pads, EBC Ultimax2/Blackstuff is a good choice.

Just be glad it's not the transmission

 

[HangFire]

I have used, with good results, the Element 3 pads and rotors on several Acuras; I have the pads on my piggy 01 Tundra.
1 year ago, maybe 27K, I installed them on my niece's '15 Odyssey EX-L. The car was bought and lived in Arlington, TX and in Santa Crux, CA (for the last 1.5 years).
The Oddy developed a shake at freeway speed braking. Turns out the rotors are probably warped; the rear brakes need servicing.

This was the 1st issue I have had with the Raybestos brake components. Dunno if I will use these again. Back to Centric, Akebono, etc.
Disappointing, but ya win some and ya lose some, I guess.

Sometimes I think factory stuff is a good way to go...

I did exactly one front brake job on my very similar Honda Pilot. My dial indicator said both rotors were way out of true; on one side it was dirt on the hub face. On the other side I had to file down some proud metal left by removing the screw in the old rotor.

If I had left them mounted crooked, I'm sure I would have had a case of "warped rotors" and pedal pulsation. I corrected both before continuing, and they gave me about 50K miles of perfect, smooth service before I sold the vehicle. (NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and Adaptive One pads, if you are curious)

Unless someone shows me the as-mounted or as-found runout numbers, I don't accept "warped rotors" as a diagnosis. I can't remember the last rotors I bought that were out of round or had bad parallelism between faces. In most cases where I've corrected garage, dealer, and DIY work, the rotors were mounted crooked in the first place. If you do correct by re-using existing rotors, it is best to scuff the friction faces, so the pads break in again evenly.

I'm currently running Element3 rotors and pads on the front of my old Dakota, it's not driven a lot so under 10K miles on them. I had a problem immediately after installation with old hose and caliper locking up on the right side, during a friend moving. I made 3 moving trips then drove it home, smoke coming out from that side. The right side Element3 rotor was blued from the heat.

I replaced the caliper and hose, scuffed up the rotor, and put on new pads. I checked runout at the same time. Almost 10K miles later, and zero problems. Pedal is still high and hard, and braking is smooth, no pull to either side.

I recommend NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and Adaptive One pads on the high end, and Element3 rotors and pads for economy jobs highly, but I also recommend proper installation procedures, including lubrication and verifying as-installed runout is within factory specs.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I did exactly one front brake job on my very similar Honda Pilot. My dial indicator said both rotors were way out of true; on one side it was dirt on the hub face. On the other side I had to file down some proud metal left by removing the screw in the old rotor.

If I had left them mounted crooked, I'm sure I would have had a case of "warped rotors" and pedal pulsation. I corrected both before continuing, and they gave me about 50K miles of perfect, smooth service before I sold the vehicle. (NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and Adaptive One pads, if you are curious)

Unless someone shows me the as-mounted or as-found runout numbers, I don't accept "warped rotors" as a diagnosis. I can't remember the last rotors I bought that were out of round or had bad parallelism between faces. In most cases where I've corrected garage, dealer, and DIY work, the rotors were mounted crooked in the first place. If you do correct by re-using existing rotors, it is best to scuff the friction faces, so the pads break in again evenly.

I'm currently running Element3 rotors and pads on the front of my old Dakota, it's not driven a lot so under 10K miles on them. I had a problem immediately after installation with old hose and caliper locking up on the right side, during a friend moving. I made 3 moving trips then drove it home, smoke coming out from that side. The right side Element3 rotor was blued from the heat.

I replaced the caliper and hose, scuffed up the rotor, and put on new pads. I checked runout at the same time. Almost 10K miles later, and zero problems. Pedal is still high and hard, and braking is smooth, no pull to either side.

I recommend NAPA Ultra Premium rotors and Adaptive One pads on the high end, and Element3 rotors and pads for economy jobs highly, but I also recommend proper installation procedures, including lubrication and verifying as-installed runout is within factory specs.

I used new Element 3 rotors and assumed they were true. I always prep the hub, clean and lube pins, caliper bracket, etc. I took the Oddy to a shop because I could not believe the front brakes were the problem. Another shop, Wheel Works (Firestone) diagnosed the problem as the LCA bushings. I almost never drive the van, my niece Wendy lives 30 miles away, works and is raising high school twin girls. Not much time to do stuff. Of course hind sight is 20-20; wish it was in my garage right now!

I am surprised and disappointed in the Element 3 components. I thought I was buying quality. Who knows for sure?

 

[HangFire]

I used new Element 3 rotors and assumed they were true. I always prep the hub, clean and lube pins, caliper bracket, etc. I took the Oddy to a shop because I could not believe the front brakes were the problem. Another shop, Wheel Works (Firestone) diagnosed the problem as the LCA bushings. I almost never drive the van, my niece Wendy lives 30 miles away, works and is raising high school twin girls. Not much time to do stuff. Of course hind sight is 20-20; wish it was in my garage right now!

I am surprised and disappointed in the Element 3 components. I thought I was buying quality. Who knows for sure?

"Clean" does not mean true. I've cleaned hubs and had to debug why the rotors kept going on crooked.

If you don't know your runout measurements, you will never know for sure.

 

[JeffKeryk]

"Clean" does not mean true. I've cleaned hubs and had to debug why the rotors kept going on crooked.

If you don't know your runout measurements, you will never know for sure.

OK. The brake pulsation started after about 24K. They were fine before that.
It would have been fun, and a good idea, to check runout, as you say.

 

[nicholas]

I have used, with good results, the Element 3 pads and rotors on several Acuras; I have the pads on my piggy 01 Tundra.
1 year ago, maybe 27K, I installed them on my niece's '15 Odyssey EX-L. The car was bought and lived in Arlington, TX and in Santa Crux, CA (for the last 1.5 years).
The Oddy developed a shake at freeway speed braking. Turns out the rotors are probably warped; the rear brakes need servicing.

This was the 1st issue I have had with the Raybestos brake components. Dunno if I will use these again. Back to Centric, Akebono, etc.
Disappointing, but ya win some and ya lose some, I guess.

Sometimes I think factory stuff is a good way to go...

As a fellow odyssey owner oem is worse.

 

[cb_13]

I have used, with good results, the Element 3 pads and rotors on several Acuras; I have the pads on my piggy 01 Tundra.
1 year ago, maybe 27K, I installed them on my niece's '15 Odyssey EX-L. The car was bought and lived in Arlington, TX and in Santa Crux, CA (for the last 1.5 years).
The Oddy developed a shake at freeway speed braking. Turns out the rotors are probably warped; the rear brakes need servicing.

This was the 1st issue I have had with the Raybestos brake components. Dunno if I will use these again. Back to Centric, Akebono, etc.
Disappointing, but ya win some and ya lose some, I guess.

Sometimes I think factory stuff is a good way to go...

Have the tires been rotated since you’ve done this brake job? Number 1 root cause I’ve seen of brake pulsation is a tire shop using the Ugga Dugga torque method on the wheels. Of course it could be due to a panic stop as well but normally a newish thicker rotor that’s not been turned is a little more resistant to warping.

So to me that would leave either material transfer or lug nut torque. Material transfer could be due to the quality of the pads, the setup being undersized from the factory, a situation where a brake is hanging for some reason(caliper, slide pin, hose) or driver riding the brakes.

I’ve had great luck with the element 3 even used on my truck that does a good amount of towing. Maybe theyre a poor design for her particular application, I’d just want to know if the tires had been rotated before condemning them.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Have the tires been rotated since you’ve done this brake job? Number 1 root cause I’ve seen of brake pulsation is a tire shop using the Ugga Dugga torque method on the wheels. Of course it could be due to a panic stop as well but normally a newish thicker rotor that’s not been turned is a little more resistant to warping.

So to me that would leave either material transfer or lug nut torque. Material transfer could be due to the quality of the pads, the setup being undersized from the factory, a situation where a brake is hanging for some reason(caliper, slide pin, hose) or driver riding the brakes.

I’ve had great luck with the element 3 even used on my truck that does a good amount of towing. Maybe theyre a poor design for her particular application, I’d just want to know if the tires had been rotated before condemning them.

You may have a point. Costco replaced a tire (maybe 2) under warranty.
Truth be told, I am probably mad at myself... Ha!

 

[JeffKeryk]

As a fellow odyssey owner oem is worse.

Are Odysseys known for brake shudder? I was wondering about that. In fact, this is why I serviced the fronts a year ago...

 

[redhat]

Number 1 root cause I’ve seen of brake pulsation is a tire shop using the Ugga Dugga torque method on the wheels. Of course it could be due to a panic stop as well but normally a newish thicker rotor that’s not been turned is a little more resistant to warping.

Un fastening the wheel and re installing the nuts with the proper torque, does that usually cure the ugga dugga gun's sins? So many people just throw the wheel on with a gun. The gun is good for taking off and maybe taking up the lug nut slack, but I do agree that a torque wrench or stick should be used at all times.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

I just bought element 3 rotors and pads from and rear for her 2015 Altima.

Will install them this weekend. Most of the reviews I’ve read on them (from here) are positive. I use my impact to take off and lowest setting to put wheel back on and then torque to 80

 

[DannyM]

Are Odysseys known for brake shudder? I was wondering about that. In fact, this is why I serviced the fronts a year ago...

Follow this brake company's instructions before you buy new rotors. https://alconkits.com/support/brake-pad-info/110-the-real-truth-about-warped-brake-rotors

 

[Trav]

Are Odysseys known for brake shudder? I was wondering about that. In fact, this is why I serviced the fronts a year ago...

If a wheel is removed you must make sure the wheel is clean where the wheel sits on the rotor. This especially true with aluminum wheels, what happens is if corrosion happens with the wheel mounted when it is removed and put back on in a different location on the hub it can shake like crazy under braking, just like "distorted rotors".

 

[The Critic]

Are Odysseys known for brake shudder? I was wondering about that. In fact, this is why I serviced the fronts a year ago...

Yes. I would not expect any set of front brakes to last more than 30K without having vibration issues.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Brakes/shuuder fixed and Wendy (my niece) is happy. We took the Oddy to Westside Auto Repair in Santa Cruz, which was my older brother's shop, Comprehensive Mechanics, before he passed away at 44 from cancer. We sold the shop about 1996 I think. Been trhough a couple of owners since then. Good to be back in the shop, even though my brother demanded a clean shop. The place wasn't too bad but not like before when all tools were cleaned and put away before closing, etc.

I did not think it could be brakes bcause I did the fronts 1 year ago this month. I was wrong. 1 year and almost 30K... The owner, Juan, turned the 4 rotors, trued the E3 pads (I think) and R&R'ed the rears (they were shot). Bill was like $590; I just gave him 6 bills.

If I learned something, it was worth it. Thanks to all who chimed in. Mostly I am mad at the parts and madder at myself for not addressing the problem clearly. Everything pointed towards brake shudder. In fact, that was the reason I serviced them a year ago. Maybe it would have been different if my niece were closer and not on the run with her kids and stuff all the time.

@Trav thanks for the tip. Corrosion is not a big problem here in sunny Silicon Valley and I do scrub wheels throughly with dish soap when they are off. I will remember your tip. Corrosion is bad and clean is good.

@The Critic I believe your 30K tip was spot on. I did not realize she had driven that far in 1 year. A lot of hwy 17 as well... And Wendy drives faaaaast; always in a hurry!

 

[meep]

Brakes/shuuder fixed and Wendy (my niece) is happy. We took the Oddy to Westside Auto Repair in Santa Cruz, which was my older brother's shop, Comprehensive Mechanics, before he passed away at 44 from cancer. We sold the shop about 1996 I think. Been trhough a couple of owners since then. Good to be back in the shop, even though my brother demanded a clean shop. The place wasn't too bad but not like before when all tools were cleaned and put away before closing, etc.

I did not think it could be brakes bcause I did the fronts 1 year ago this month. I was wrong. 1 year and almost 30K... The owner, Juan, turned the 4 rotors, trued the E3 pads (I think) and R&R'ed the rears (they were shot). Bill was like $590; I just gave him 6 bills.

If I learned something, it was worth it. Thanks to all who chimed in. Mostly I am mad at the parts and madder at myself for not addressing the problem clearly. Everything pointed towards brake shudder. In fact, that was the reason I serviced them a year ago. Maybe it would have been different if my niece were closer and not on the run with her kids and stuff all the time.

@Trav thanks for the tip. Corrosion is not a big problem here in sunny Silicon Valley and I do scrub wheels throughly with dish soap when they are off. I will remember your tip. Corrosion is bad and clean is good.

@The Critic I believe your 30K tip was spot on. I did not realize she had driven that far in 1 year. A lot of hwy 17 as well... And Wendy drives faaaaast; always in a hurry!

@JeffKeryk im with you. I’m starting to have a comeback pulsation on one of mine, and I don’t own a dial indicator; I should probably buy a cheapo and learn how.

 

[JeffKeryk]

@JeffKeryk im with you. I’m starting to have a comeback pulsation on one of mine, and I don’t own a dial indicator; I should probably buy a cheapo and learn how.

Good luck. If you have 30K on the assembly and did a reasonable installation, be prepared to buy some parts.
I kinda think the front end heavy Odyssey and its use were too much for the components.

There were a number of good points posted on my thread.

 

[The Critic]

On many cars with “undersized” brakes, urban driving conditions and non-metallic pads, the issue is inevitable. A proper brake job may mean the difference between 25K vs. 15K, but I wouldn’t expect miracles.