2015 Odyssey - Most expensive brake service ever...

[threeputtpar]

2 sets of twin girls on her own? She must be a saint.

I used the Raybestos EHT for 60k miles without issue, granted NE WI is pretty flat. We did take several trips to TN and FL that included mountain driving.

I now have Duralast pads and rotors, mainly because they went with the updated design of rotor with the cooling holes in the rotor hat. So far, so good. I had to switch vehicles with my wife, and she likes to stop late and keep pressure on the brake pedal at red lights. that habit is the biggest reason Odysseys have brake pulsation. If you can see an outline of brake pads on the rotor, the driver's habits are the root cause. The Acadia is starting to develop a slight shake, but I'm smart enough to not try to give her "advice" on her procedures.

 

[Donald]

It's nice to have huge brakes on my F250. Never have these kind of issues.

 

[oilstudent24]

Is this typical for the segment? Undersized rotors to keep costs down and reduce unspring mass?

I seem to remember Honda maybe increased the rotor size cause of that issue. Thought it was around that time.

 

[The Critic]

I seem to remember Honda maybe increased the rotor size cause of that issue. Thought it was around that time.

Style of the rotor hat changed - they added vent holes.

 

[John105]

Toyota and Honda both. Not sure about Nissan and Koreans, but I don't think it is any different. They are way undersized.
1. It keeps costs down.
2. Less unsprung weight improves mpg.
3. Possibility to use smaller wheels.

They calculate how the majority of drivers use these vans. Going to school, office. Some will tax brakes with mountain driving (me) and aggressive driving (me), but how many % of drivers is that?

Yeah even my LS430 has 4 piston front and 2 piston rear calipers, fixed at all 4, and teeny weeny rotors. Not only that, a huge stripe of shame on the rears near the hats, where the pad makes no contact. Contrast that to Germans where the entire rotor surface is swept by the pads. Everyone cuts corners but Japanese do hugely. They’ll focus on a floor mat clip rather than a power window switch or cup holder that costs $319 list whose arms break over and over and over

 

[Justbuggin69]

My apologies for replying to an older thread, but for my wife’s 2014 Odyssey, I picked up these from rockauto after the rotors kept warping:

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1904400&cc=0&pt=1896&jsn=446 (rotors)

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5417175&cc=0&pt=1684&jsn=450 (Pads)

30kish and no warping.

 

[Nesterenko]

That sure does seem excessive. Did it eat brakes like that prior to reaching over 100K?
If the OEM components lasted 100K, then I would happily pay the higher price for those than be changing components at 25k...not to mention the safety factor.

Guys, different people buy the same model. You have people who have a love affair with the brake pedal; you have people who drive fast etc.

1. Honda is very well aware of who drives their cars, the majority of customers etc. It is a calculation how they will design the braking system as that has an impact of mpg, cost etc. Large rotors mean more unsprung weight, which means worse mpg and acceleration. Going undersized rotors means better mpg, more importantly, better mpg on a sticker.
2. Honda can, of course, develop a more robust braking system. Simply saying: "well, maybe it is the driver," means that the braking system does not have a lot of room for "error." or room for people who drive more aggressively. For example, when I had factory-installed brakes (before the upgrade) on my BMW 328, rotors could do 35k of combined street and track driving. Regardless that I used track pads for track time, which are very aggressive on rotors, they would last at least 35k. No vibrating, nothing. And the rotor from ATE (OE supplier) was like $54. That is what happens when the manufacturer designs an appropriate braking system. If the excuse is: well, Wendy drives maybe like this and that," yeah, the first culprit is Honda, then Wendy. What does that mean? "Our braking system is working properly only if..."

The funny thing is that my work colleague texted me last night with this exact problem but on the 2022 Toyota Highlander XLE. I told him: welcome to the crappy world of Toyota brakes. 19,000 miles.

I like your previous EBC /Akebono ceramic suggestion. EBC brake rotors are pricier but I think the quality is there.

 

[Nesterenko]

Regardless of the parts used checking the rotor run out and correcting it if necessary is a must.

Agree, without checking runout, DVT, problems
will persist yet people just blame the rotor until they're back again with the same complaints of shudder etc.

 

[MaximaGuy]

My mechanic swears to not use any lube when doing my brakes - he tells me it causes more problems.
Uses new glides and no grease whatsoever for over 40 yrs.

At some point the tierods have to be replaced, its the nature of the beast. Shuddering, shaking after new brakes and rotors are a classic sign of tierods, LCAs never ever fail.

 

[John105]

i may have already responded but I recall when I started a new job in 2010, my coworker had an ‘08 Accord. At 40k she had
done the rears 2X and the fronts 1X, was told she needed new fronts, and then Honda lost a class action (they seem to have this pattern buddy with Odyssey got a new engine?) so she was in the process of getting reimbursed.

Brakes really are not rocket surgery esp if there is a shortcoming with design, not much an owner can do.

My 2007 was the first vehicle where rears wear faster than fronts. It was counterintuitive to me. Our 2011 was the second (I did all 4 pads/rotors in 2018, lo and behold the rears wore down to the scrapers and fronts still good at least 5k later—original records show rears gone at 29k and fronts at 40k). My 2007’s computer starts rear pads at 1/2 the distance of fronts

 

[John105]

My mechanic swears to not use any lube when doing my brakes - he tells me it causes more problems.
Uses new glides and no grease whatsoever for over 40 yrs.

At some point the tierods have to be replaced, its the nature of the beast. Shuddering, shaking after new brakes and rotors are a classic sign of tierods, LCAs never ever fail.

That’s kinda funny…your screen name and my ‘98 Maxima, it needed new lower control arms and it’s all over YouTube how to do them…

 

[MaximaGuy]

LCAs almost never ever fail - very less movement. When I changed the LCA on Toyo the old ones with 200K were better than new OEM ones. Yes they never ever fail unless there is a product defect.

 

[Nukeman7]

LCAs almost never ever fail - very less movement. When I changed the LCA on Toyo the old ones with 200K were better than new OEM ones. Yes they never ever fail unless there is a product defect.

That might be true for Nissans and Toyotas, but not for most Hondas/Acuras. While the metal structural part of the LCA doesn't fail without impact/collision damage, the round rubber compliance bushings fail frequently on many Hondas.

Although it is possible to replace the compliance bushings only, you need to have a specialized Honda bushing press (or take it to a machine shop) to do so. Overall, it is easier and more cost effective to replace the entire LCA assembly on a Honda if using aftermarket parts.

 

[John105]

That might be true for Nissans and Toyotas, but not for most Hondas/Acuras. While the metal structural part of the LCA doesn't fail without impact/collision damage, the round rubber compliance bushings fail frequently on many Hondas.
View attachment 219736
Although it is possible to replace the compliance bushings only, you need to have a specialized Honda bushing press (or take it to a machine shop) to do so. Overall, it is easier and more cost effective to replace the entire LCA assembly on a Honda if using aftermarket parts.

On my LS430 no dealer wanted to do the job (pressing). Lexus quoted $1700. Figuring Toyota charges less, I called them and they wanted $900 labor if I provide parts (this is a common theme with Japanese cars).

Went to the Japanese independent garage and they pressed my new bushings in and the old ones out for $150. I saw online some guys DIY and they freeze the bushings night before. An Audi indie said we have the press but to be honest what I’d charge is too little vs. if I ran into any difficulties with your car. He said $100 then declined the job

 

[edyvw]

On my LS430 no dealer wanted to do the job (pressing). Lexus quoted $1700. Figuring Toyota charges less, I called them and they wanted $900 labor if I provide parts (this is a common theme with Japanese cars).

Went to the Japanese independent garage and they pressed my new bushings in and the old ones out for $150. I saw online some guys DIY and they freeze the bushings night before. An Audi indie said we have the press but to be honest what I’d charge is too little vs. if I ran into any difficulties with your car. He said $100 then declined the job

Why is it so complicated? Because on BMW for example I was playing with some bushings to increase feedback on track and took me 45min to push them out and push new one in. VW has one that looks similar to Honda Pilot and it is maybe and hour job.

 

[John105]

Why is it so complicated? Because on BMW for example I was playing with some bushings to increase feedback on track and took me 45min to push them out and push new one in. VW has one that looks similar to Honda Pilot and it is maybe and hour job.

Different community. There are no less than 5 BMW indies in a 15 mile radius from my house who install customer parts. My favorite is Helix.

There are no more than zero Japanese indies who do so in Phila (I’d love to be proven wrong as I’ll drive there and give them business). I have to go 60 miles to my trusted Japanese indie who installs customer parts.

Or are you referring to why doesn’t a DIY have a press large enough. Not sure.

 

[edyvw]

Different community. There are no less than 5 BMW indies in a 15 mile radius from my house who install customer parts. My favorite is Helix.

There are no more than zero Japanese indies who do so in Phila (I’d love to be proven wrong as I’ll drive there and give them business). I have to go 60 miles to my trusted Japanese indie who installs customer parts.

Or are you referring to why doesn’t a DIY have a press large enough. Not sure.

I am referring to DIY and indie. These are simple parts. It doesn’t have to be specific Honda shop. It is as simple suspension as it gets.

 

[John105]

I am referring to DIY and indie. These are simple parts. It doesn’t have to be specific Honda shop. It is as simple suspension as it gets.

I get that you can DIY the job and likely have a 30 ton press in your shop. Have you tried calling around in Phila, asking to have Lexus bushings (not BMW) pressed out that you are providing, and recorded the results?

My hunch? For what was $150 in 2016:

1). Many shops do not deal with customer parts, they will provide and it is $1700 at the dealer so they might actually do Mevotech for half

2). If they charge $100 like the Audi shop, they were not familiar with an LS430
And didn’t want to collect $100 but chance a problem occurring and shop time lost.

3). A Japanese indie familiar with my car charged $150. I sat and waited and it was done in 30 min. Win win as I cannot DIY this job.

Other than the above, we’d be totally guessing in seeking an answer to your question

 

[andrew_j]

If I had to guess, I'm afraid @edyvw is right on this one. Quality parts count, but if the design is subpar, you are fighting an tough battle.
Brakes are a critical component.

I think the E3 rotors are not up to the task for this heavy, FWD vehicle. It shouldn't be that hard. I love Hondas, but this is not good...

It’s driver related irrelevant to sizing. She’s heavy on brakes or maybe the load is heavy driving around.

I drive a 2015 Pilot relatively similar brakes and manage 50k mostly local driving. I coast to stoplights not drive fast and apply .

My wife manages 60-70k on VW brakes due to coasting and easy start/stops. Her sisters who speed to stops both manage about 25k for Dodge Caravan now Taos and other with Volvo XC90 .

 

[nicholas]

My nieces 2105 Odyssey EX-L...
April 2022, 133,500K, I installed Element 3 Pads and rotors. Cleaned up everything, lubed, torqued, etc.

April 2023, 159,000, 25,500 miles since service, Wendy complained of a shake, she took it to local Wheel Works (Firestone), they said it was LCA bushings. Took it to a "good" shop in Santa Cruz. This used to be my brother's shop before he got sick from cancer and passed away at 44. I love the place, on the west side of town by the University. They said it was brake shudder which of course surprised me. Mechanic said he did not like the Raybestos E3 brake components. He resurfaced rotors (front and rear), reused E3 front pads and installed new rear pads. $600.
A month or so ago Wendy said the shudder returned at times, primarily on the freeway. There is a windy, hilly highway between here and Santa Cruz through the Santa Cruz Mountain Range.
Based on @The Critic recommendation, I purchased Honda pads (Ebay $65) and Dynamic Friction Geospec rotors (RA, $60 each).
Today, Aug 2023, 169,000, 10,000 miles since resurface rotors, I installed the new parts. I was disappointed with the shop's work. Way over torqued fasteners, too much lube in the sliders as one slider would not fully compress.

Apparently the brakes may be undersized for the minivan? I've installed the Element 3 on several vehicles including my Tundra (pads only) and on a TSX. Maybe the rotors are not up to the task of a heavy van?

Dunno. Should I plan on brakes every 25K? Let's see what happens. The brakes feel pretty good right now. The Honda pad fittment was like buttah... Nice!

Wendy let me know the brakes feel great; she got home through the hills. I have had good results with the E3 brake components. Not sure I will use them again...

The brakes ARE UNDERSIZED for that van.
Especially if it's fully loaded.

One of the reasons why we just sold our 15 odyssey.

Only buy Honda parts from Honda.....not eBay.
The fakes are everywhere