Ravenol RSS 10W-60 - Worth it?

[SubieRubyRoo]

I missed this thread until now.

I own an S85 powered M6 from new, I used the speced Castrol 10w60 for a short time, then switched to Redline 10w60. After years of hearing from Internet 'experts' that my rotating assembly bearings would be shot, I went through engine last year and checked the bearings and journals. All were in great shape.

I DO always bring the engine up to operating temperature, before those sonorous trips to redline. Mine is a 6-speed manual.

So I can recommend the Redline 10w60.

How many miles?

 

[02SE]

How many miles?

It's a 2010, with 75k miles.

Keep in mind that it sees redline EVERY time I drive it. Since listening to the exhaust note, is one of the main reasons I bought it.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

As someone who owns one of these engines that uses 10W-60 now, even low VII would be good but actually what I really find interesting is if it’s possible to make a 5W-50 or 60 with HTHS > 5.0.

I was thinking along these lines, since the Castrol quickly shears down to a 50, why not start with a no VII 50?

 

[chris719]

I was thinking along these lines, since the Castrol quickly shears down to a 50, why not start with a no VII 50?

Sure. I’m not so obsessed with No VII though. Some oils like ESP X3/X4 or Ravenol’s 0Ws etc. hold up really well so it depends on the VII chosen. I am personally thinking of running 300V 5W-50 since the HTHS is close to the Castrol but yes it would be good to start with a 50 that will hold viscosity. I’m not that concerned about the kinematic viscosity loss other than it seems to be a proxy for HTHS loss.

I’m running the new BMW 10W-60 right now since I liked the look of the additive package in the 2023-2024 analyses floating around.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Sure. I’m not so obsessed with No VII though. Some oils like ESP X3/X4 or Ravenol’s 0Ws etc. hold up really well so it depends on the VII chosen. I am personally thinking of running 300V 5W-50 since the HTHS is close to the Castrol but yes it would be good to start with a 50 that will hold viscosity. I’m not that concerned about the kinematic viscosity loss other than it seems to be a proxy for HTHS loss.

I’m running the new BMW 10W-60 right now since I liked the look of the additive package in the 2023-2024 analyses floating around.

Even the 15w50 300V would be a little stouter.
Motul have the 10W60 available here in Oz which may be useful for the OP:
https://www.motul.com/en-AU/products/17950?product=MOTUL+8100+X-POWER+10W-60

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Sure. I’m not so obsessed with No VII though. Some oils like ESP X3/X4 or Ravenol’s 0Ws etc. hold up really well so it depends on the VII chosen. I am personally thinking of running 300V 5W-50 since the HTHS is close to the Castrol but yes it would be good to start with a 50 that will hold viscosity. I’m not that concerned about the kinematic viscosity loss other than it seems to be a proxy for HTHS loss.

I’m running the new BMW 10W-60 right now since I liked the look of the additive package in the 2023-2024 analyses floating around.

So, I was rewatching the LSJr Viscocity breakdown vid.
At 13:40 he has a chart showing viscosity breakdown of some commercial oils. Fascinating. Screenshot attached.
These results suggest to me a none or at least very low VII 15W50 may be an option worth considering. This is something he discusses at 18:28.

 

[kschachn]

So, I was rewatching the LSJr Viscocity breakdown vid.
At 13:40 he has a chart showing viscosity breakdown of some commercial oils. Fascinating. Screenshot attached.
These results suggest to me a none or at least very low VII 15W50 may be an option worth considering. This is something he discusses at 18:28.


View attachment 276023

Not all VM are the same in shear stability of course, so as noted it can depend. But a no-VII oil will not shear. That number in the chart for the no-VII product is an artifact.

 

[LordNilesStandish]

Not all VM are the same in shear stability of course, so as noted it can depend. But a no-VII oil will not shear. That number in the chart for the no-VII product is an artifact.

Well true 0.6% is probably within measurement precision.

 

[RBIS65]

For my BMW M6 with the S85 V10, I was previously using the Castrol Edge 10w60 Supercar oil which I believe is what the engine came filled with from the factory. The Castrol oil is one of only two 10w60's that are readily avaliable from local shops where I live, the other being a local Australian brand (Penrite).
However, my mechanic's supplier started importing Ravenol a while ago, including their RSS 10w60.

I decided to give it a try, as it looks very good on paper and has some friction modifiers that the Castrol lacks, so potentially a little better for preventing wear. The flip side is it's a lot more expensive, easily twice the price of the Castrol oil, if not more.

Obviously I want the best for my engine, but do you think it's worth paying extra for the Ravenol, or any differences to the Castrol will be negligible and I should save my money?

Data sheet for the Castrol Edge 10w60 here
Ravenol RSS 10w60 data sheet here

Hi there,

Like so many S85 or S65 owners, we are scared to death about rod bearing failures. S65 owners, like me, are now also freaking out about main bearing failures... With that out of the way, after doing research it seems we can mitigate these failures by switching to a finner oil (i.e. 5w50 or 5w60) and make sure the oil not only has a high HTHS but also does not break down to rapidly.

First, I'm not an expert by any mean so if an expert can confirm, that would be awesome!

Second, I've been using Motul 8100 10w60 which has a high HTHS although the ravenol rss or amsoil seems to be even better in that regards. However, no idea at which rate these will break down. If someone knows that will be awesome as well. I guess changing oil every 2500 miles or less will mitigate that as well.

Finally, my Christmas gift wish... I wish a 5w50 or 5w60 would exit with a HTHS as high as one of the Motul 8100 and that would not break down. Any recommendations for the high revving NA BMW M owners???

 

[edyvw]

Hi there,

Like so many S85 or S65 owners, we are scared to death about rod bearing failures. S65 owners, like me, are now also freaking out about main bearing failures... With that out of the way, after doing research it seems we can mitigate these failures by switching to a finner oil (i.e. 5w50 or 5w60) and make sure the oil not only has a high HTHS but also does not break down to rapidly.

First, I'm not an expert by any mean so if an expert can confirm, that would be awesome!

Second, I've been using Motul 8100 10w60 which has a high HTHS although the ravenol rss or amsoil seems to be even better in that regards. However, no idea at which rate these will break down. If someone knows that will be awesome as well. I guess changing oil every 2500 miles or less will mitigate that as well.

Finally, my Christmas gift wish... I wish a 5w50 or 5w60 would exit with a HTHS as high as one of the Motul 8100 and that would not break down. Any recommendations for the high revving NA BMW M owners???

Do UOA and see where your KV100 is after some time.

 

[RBIS65]

Do UOA and see where your KV100 is after some time.

Did two of those but only got KV40 showing 140 and 139 mm2/s after 2000ish miles.

163 mm2/s as per Motul datasheet.

What does this mean for you and in regards to my three questions/topics?

 

[edyvw]

Did two of those but only got KV40 showing 140 and 139 mm2/s after 2000ish miles.

163 mm2/s as per Motul datasheet.

What does this mean for you and in regards to my three questions/topics?

Why no KV100? KV40 could fluctuate a lot. Which lab did UOA?

 

[chris719]

Hi there,

Like so many S85 or S65 owners, we are scared to death about rod bearing failures. S65 owners, like me, are now also freaking out about main bearing failures... With that out of the way, after doing research it seems we can mitigate these failures by switching to a finner oil (i.e. 5w50 or 5w60) and make sure the oil not only has a high HTHS but also does not break down to rapidly.

First, I'm not an expert by any mean so if an expert can confirm, that would be awesome!

Second, I've been using Motul 8100 10w60 which has a high HTHS although the ravenol rss or amsoil seems to be even better in that regards. However, no idea at which rate these will break down. If someone knows that will be awesome as well. I guess changing oil every 2500 miles or less will mitigate that as well.

Finally, my Christmas gift wish... I wish a 5w50 or 5w60 would exit with a HTHS as high as one of the Motul 8100 and that would not break down. Any recommendations for the high revving NA BMW M owners???

I do not believe there is any evidence that a 5W oil will help these engines unless you are in extremely cold climates. It's all rumor and hearsay. If you think about it from first principles, there is no real reason for a lower HTHS oil to be better at protecting the bearings. The only 5W-50 I could recommend is Red Line 5W-50 since it has an HTHS of 5.0 cP, almost the same as the Castrol 10W-60. I personally switched my S54 to the BMW TPT 10W-60 as I saw a few posters here had really nice UOA results with it recently in terms of low wear metals and also the additive package seems to have been updated to increase moly to 200 ppm along with the 40-50 ppm of Ti. Seems like a nicer additive package than most of the 10W-60 offerings out there. That said, I will probably try the Ravenol RSS at some point as long as I still have the car. It looks amazing on paper.

 

[TasBMW]

Hi there,

Like so many S85 or S65 owners, we are scared to death about rod bearing failures. S65 owners, like me, are now also freaking out about main bearing failures... With that out of the way, after doing research it seems we can mitigate these failures by switching to a finner oil (i.e. 5w50 or 5w60) and make sure the oil not only has a high HTHS but also does not break down to rapidly.

First, I'm not an expert by any mean so if an expert can confirm, that would be awesome!

Second, I've been using Motul 8100 10w60 which has a high HTHS although the ravenol rss or amsoil seems to be even better in that regards. However, no idea at which rate these will break down. If someone knows that will be awesome as well. I guess changing oil every 2500 miles or less will mitigate that as well.

Finally, my Christmas gift wish... I wish a 5w50 or 5w60 would exit with a HTHS as high as one of the Motul 8100 and that would not break down. Any recommendations for the high revving NA BMW M owners???

I don't believe a 5w60 even exists since the viscosity gap between hot and cold is too great? Would love to be proven wrong though.
As the prior person said, I'm not sure there's a huge benefit to running a 5W opposed to a 10W unless you live somewhere where the ambient temps drop well below freezing. A 10W oil should still provide adequate cold start protection down to at least -30 degrees c, and while the 5W will obviously flow better at those extreme cold temperatures, unless you're revving the engine high before the oil is at temp, the gains are likely negligible. In the case of a 5W50 you'd be sacrificing the amount of protection when the oil is at temp (most of the time) for questionable benefits when the oil is cold (a relatively small percentage of engine operating time).

 

[kschachn]

I do not believe there is any evidence that a 5W oil will help these engines unless you are in extremely cold climates. It's all rumor and hearsay. If you think about it from first principles, there is no real reason for a lower HTHS oil to be better at protecting the bearings. The only 5W-50 I could recommend is Red Line 5W-50 since it has an HTHS of 5.0 cP, almost the same as the Castrol 10W-60. I personally switched my S54 to the BMW TPT 10W-60 as I saw a few posters here had really nice UOA results with it recently in terms of low wear metals and also the additive package seems to have been updated to increase moly to 200 ppm along with the 40-50 ppm of Ti. Seems like a nicer additive package than most of the 10W-60 offerings out there. That said, I will probably try the Ravenol RSS at some point as long as I still have the car. It looks amazing on paper.

Agreed. The winter rating does nothing for protection except for when it is inappropriate and the oil cannot be pumped.

 

[RBIS65]

I don't believe a 5w60 even exists since the viscosity gap between hot and cold is too great? Would love to be proven wrong though.
As the prior person said, I'm not sure there's a huge benefit to running a 5W opposed to a 10W unless you live somewhere where the ambient temps drop well below freezing. A 10W oil should still provide adequate cold start protection down to at least -30 degrees c, and while the 5W will obviously flow better at those extreme cold temperatures, unless you're revving the engine high before the oil is at temp, the gains are likely negligible. In the case of a 5W50 you'd be sacrificing the amount of protection when the oil is at temp (most of the time) for questionable benefits when the oil is cold (a relatively small percentage of engine operating time).

There are some from 5w60, dare I say it, questionable brands and Penrite

I do not believe there is any evidence that a 5W oil will help these engines unless you are in extremely cold climates. It's all rumor and hearsay. If you think about it from first principles, there is no real reason for a lower HTHS oil to be better at protecting the bearings. The only 5W-50 I could recommend is Red Line 5W-50 since it has an HTHS of 5.0 cP, almost the same as the Castrol 10W-60. I personally switched my S54 to the BMW TPT 10W-60 as I saw a few posters here had really nice UOA results with it recently in terms of low wear metals and also the additive package seems to have been updated to increase moly to 200 ppm along with the 40-50 ppm of Ti. Seems like a nicer additive package than most of the 10W-60 offerings out there. That said, I will probably try the Ravenol RSS at some point as long as I still have the car. It looks amazing on paper.

Interesting this BMW oil. I will look into it. BTW sorry if I forgot about S54 owners.

Why no KV100? KV40 could fluctuate a lot. Which lab did UOA?

Eurofins IESPM. Yes that is in Europe.

All in all, thanks for your answers. Then it confirms that HTHS is the most important for these engines as well as the oil breakdown (which can only be seen after UOA).

 

[kschachn]

All in all, thanks for your answers. Then it confirms that HTHS is the most important for these engines as well as the oil breakdown (which can only be seen after UOA).

What kind of “oil breakdown” are you looking for on the UOA?

 

[RBIS65]

What kind of “oil breakdown” are you looking for on the UOA?

Viscosity and HTHS.

 

[kschachn]

Viscosity and HTHS.

Well you won't get HT/HS on a UOA. And make sure you know for certain what drives any viscosity deviation you may see, whether it is fuel or (less likely) mechanical shear of the VII. Any mitigation of those is different for what may be the cause.