Originally Posted By: jpr
I thought we were discussing GM6094M?
The point will hold plenty of water in a warranty discussion.
If you decide to use an oil not approved to the relevant GM standard and have an issue, then you get to particpate in all sorts of delightlful conversations about use of your non-approved oil and what led you to believe it met or exceeded the standard when no so such claim was made by either GM or the oil manufacturer?
If you are using Mobil 1, or any other oil that has been approved by GM (and there is certainly a list of those oils around somewhere) then you never even have that conversation.
Look at it as a balance of risks. What do you believe you are risking by not using your favorite oil and what do you believe you are risking by using an unapproved oil? There is no right or wrong way to decide, but it is wise to acknowledge and weigh the risk rather than just pretend it isn't there.
EDIT - I did find a copy of the Aug07 GM6094M list here -
http://216.182.211.32/TechLink/images/issues/ref_gds/oilrequirements.pdf - Royal Purple is not on it.
We are discussing GM6094M. However you made this comment...
"I'll bet you dollars to donuts there is is a trademark licensing issue involved in putting a statement on your oil bottle that you meet the GM standard without GM's concurrence that you have done so."
I was merely pointing out that an oil mfg can make mention of an oil standard without any license infringment as you mentioned as long as it states meets/exceeds and not certified. RP mentions the GM GM4781M synthetic standard so I used that as an example. It just as easily could say meets/exceeds GM6094M on the bottle if they wanted to. Makes more sense to me to list the harder standard to meet than the easier though? Also, there are so many oil standards out there it would take 3 labels to fit them all on. Having an oil standard listed on the label means very little other than if it actually is certified or not. Certified does not make it a better oil and not having it does not make it a bad oil.
All it really does is take the leg work out of it for those who don't have the desire to or knowledge to go and check an oil's spec's to see if it passes the test. It provides a quick and simple means for the masses to use an oil that meets minimum standards the auto mfg wants. Does not mean ONLY oils on that list can be used however and the mfg never says so. And of course, don't forget, certification is a source of income for the car mfg as that certification is not cheap.
I never said you wouldn't have to back up with some documentation or other form of proof that the oil you use meets/exceeds the standard in question if it isn't "certified" either. And actually, you only have to do that if "asked"! You may never be asked. I would of course make sure the oil you use does meet the standard even if not asked to cover yourself down the road. That is why I purposely got the spec's and checked out RP to make sure even though I had no doubts about the outcome.
Another point is once you have shown you complied legally with the requirement it is up to the dealer and new car mfg to prove the non certified oil caused your problem if that is why they try to void you. Good luck on their part. You might even get the oil company like Amsoil or RP to help you fight it if the car mfg tried. Yes, you may have to fight it, if they are out of their minds and actually try and take it to court( never happening )but once you win, and you will win, you then go after them for damages and costs incurred in defending yourself.
It is never going to get that far anwyay being honest. There are laws governing this stuff and if you can show the oil you used meet the standard at the least they are not going to push it to court as they know they will lose. They may try and bully you initially but they won't push it once you show you know the law and will fight back. Seen it 1st hand.
Actually, my statements here have been to the contrary in regards to what you are saying/implying I said about using a non certified oil. I specifically have stated( in this thread? ) that I had provided the documentation to the dealer I use that does my OC's showing RP exceeded the oil standard so there would be no questions or issues. I have further stated, if speaking with my service writer cap on, in the hypothetical situation with a non GM6094M certified oil( Amsoil 5W-20 ), where it was called for, that the customer would have to get me the documentation showing how it performed in reference the standard test data or I would advise them not to use it while under warranty.
I have always maintained that to use a non certified oil you best be able to back it up like I can with RP and the oil standard my vehicles call for. Many seem to assume when I say you don't have to use a certified oil I am somehow also saying you can use whatever you want and/or you don't have to be able to back up the oil you want to use( non certified )meets the oil standard in question. Two totally different things.
I NEVER pretended the risk was not there. I have ALWAYS qualified any statements I make with legal referrence and a personal working experience knowledge of how this works in a dealership service department however. Actually, every negative point here you have brought up against me/using a non certified product, to defend only using certified oil( how I interpret it anyway as a defense of certified only ), are points I have already addressed. Some of your points/theorys are correct but frankly some are just flat wrong.
Why do I personally choose to use a non certified oil? Because, the oil brand I prefer to use is Royal Purple. Royal Purple is not certified as a GM6094M oil but it does meet( actually it exceeds )the standard and thus "legally" is perfectly fine to use. The dealer can not void me because I use it. They may try( always a possibility with anything you do that is not 100% stock be it oil, performance exhaust and CAI, non stock plugs, or whatever... )but it does not mean they win. I can produce the RP oil's spec's in regards to the standard requirements and when shown they exceed the test I win hands down. I have serious doubts it would ever come to that and that is even based on all the stupid, ignorant, and crazy things I have seen some dealers do while working in the automotive field.
I also feel RP is superior to any of the oils on that list. Superior to my other non certified options like Amsoil and Redline as well( I have the right to my opinion - please no RP slams guys ). That is why I choose to use it.
What benefits do I get to using it? The benefits of using a premium synthetic oil. Same benefits anyone gets using synthetic oil regardless of brand.
I know RP is not on the list. Never said it was and it never will be. They refuse, like Amsoil for example, to pay a car mfg to be certified to meet their oil standards. That list however is NOT the only oils that can be used in a vehicle calling for that oil standard. Legally you only have to use a product that meets and/or exceeds the standard. Don't know how many times it has to be said before folks get it? You do NOT have to use a certified oil. NOT NOT NOT!
It can be twisted and turned a million ways to try and say you have to use or better use a certified oil but bottom line is LEGALLY you do not have to and you can use an oil NOT on the approved list and your warranty is fine. As long as the oil used meets or exceeds the standard spec's. It is that simple.
Oh, and I believe the most current list was updated 12/07?
