Ram 1500 EcoDiesel

[MNgopher]

Long term based on data available from the EIA, diesel is priced at about 6% higher than gasoline dating back to March of 1994.

However, a more interesting break is since ULSD became mandated. Pre-ULSD (Mid October 2006), Diesel was priced at a 1% premium over regular gasoline (March 1994-October 2006). Since then however, diesel has been priced at a 10% premium to gasoline (Oct 2006 to Feb 2014).

That to me is more significant - under the current pricing of ULSD, long term has been running 10% higher. That isn't a blip in the radar. (I will grant that gasoline may be facing the same upgrade to higher standards in the near future).

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: supton


I'd be worried to find out that cheap diesel fuel is hardly cheap in the long run.


I'd be worried that the emission system repairs on a newer diesel engine would cost me more than the difference between fuel costs. At this point in time, diesel has jumped the shark.


I've been saying that for almost 4 years now. The new engines are just too fragile.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: RangerGress

According to various reviews, it looks like the Ecodiesel will get 30mpg on the freeway and 17 towing my trailer. Note how the


Those reviews were using a light (around 5k) boat, possibly the easiest thing to tow. Other trailers (enclosed car, RV, etc) will do worse.

The 3.0 Ecodiesel will breathe like a 6.0 Diesel under a large load, just like the Ecoboost is basically a 7.0 engine under boost.

If you think you will hit 17MPG towing an enclosed trailer, I think you will be disappointed.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Im sorry but those torque curves look sort of lousy. My turbo cars put more or less full torque right off idle.

Why does that thing take to nearly 3000RPM to make max torque, when you need it at like 1200 and then to be sustained?


Perhaps that's for the truck application - it's curve is way different than the car based applications:

I think for a truck you don't want all your torque down low to lessen wheel slip at takeoff under load.

 

[RangerGress]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: RangerGress

According to various reviews, it looks like the Ecodiesel will get 30mpg on the freeway and 17 towing my trailer. Note how the


Those reviews were using a light (around 5k) boat, possibly the easiest thing to tow. Other trailers (enclosed car, RV, etc) will do worse.

The 3.0 Ecodiesel will breathe like a 6.0 Diesel under a large load, just like the Ecoboost is basically a 7.0 engine under boost.

If you think you will hit 17MPG towing an enclosed trailer, I think you will be disappointed.

You did pretty much call it. I've had the EcoDiesel for 2 months now. I can easily get 30mpg at 65mph. I get 26-28mpg for my 12mi daily commute.

My first roadtrip with the trailer was 440mi. a couple weeks ago. 24' 7400lb trailer, 2/3rds flat, 1/3rd rolling hills. I was carefull to stay well behind semis so there would be no drafting affect. Roundtrip mpg was 14.3. If I'd spent some time 2secs behind available semi's, I'd have been over 15. My 2000 Ford F-250 Diesel got 13-13.5 doing my usual bit of drafting.

The towing fuel mileage improvement isn't all that big, but the upgrade in comfortable ride and peace and quiet for these long roadtrips is helacious. The pre-emissions 2000 F-250 diesel is a darn efficient tow vehicle. Beating it in mpg is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Originally Posted By: supton


I'd be worried to find out that cheap diesel fuel is hardly cheap in the long run.


I'd be worried that the emission system repairs on a newer diesel engine would cost me more than the difference between fuel costs. At this point in time, diesel has jumped the shark.


I've been saying that for almost 4 years now. The new engines are just too fragile.


Give me an old, simple, naturally aspirated mechanical injection diesel and I'll be happy! I won't go anywhere fast, but I'll always be going!

There was someone on here not far from me selling a CUCV. I should have bought it.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: JHZR2


Im sorry but those torque curves look sort of lousy. My turbo cars put more or less full torque right off idle.

Why does that thing take to nearly 3000RPM to make max torque, when you need it at like 1200 and then to be sustained?


Perhaps that's for the truck application - it's curve is way different than the car based applications:

I think for a truck you don't want all your torque down low to lessen wheel slip at takeoff under load.


I believe on the SHO they had to program out a lot of power because it would grenade the AWD system.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: RangerGress
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: RangerGress

According to various reviews, it looks like the Ecodiesel will get 30mpg on the freeway and 17 towing my trailer. Note how the


Those reviews were using a light (around 5k) boat, possibly the easiest thing to tow. Other trailers (enclosed car, RV, etc) will do worse.

The 3.0 Ecodiesel will breathe like a 6.0 Diesel under a large load, just like the Ecoboost is basically a 7.0 engine under boost.

If you think you will hit 17MPG towing an enclosed trailer, I think you will be disappointed.

You did pretty much call it. I've had the EcoDiesel for 2 months now. I can easily get 30mpg at 65mph. I get 26-28mpg for my 12mi daily commute.

My first roadtrip with the trailer was 440mi. a couple weeks ago. 24' 7400lb trailer, 2/3rds flat, 1/3rd rolling hills. I was carefull to stay well behind semis so there would be no drafting affect. Roundtrip mpg was 14.3. If I'd spent some time 2secs behind available semi's, I'd have been over 15. My 2000 Ford F-250 Diesel got 13-13.5 doing my usual bit of drafting.

The towing fuel mileage improvement isn't all that big, but the upgrade in comfortable ride and peace and quiet for these long roadtrips is helacious. The pre-emissions 2000 F-250 diesel is a darn efficient tow vehicle. Beating it in mpg is nothing to sneeze at.

2wd I assume? Great numbers though for a pickup. The unloaded highway mileage is very impressive though, and what would sway us to a diesel.

 

[RangerGress]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: RangerGress
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: RangerGress

According to various reviews, it looks like the Ecodiesel will get 30mpg on the freeway and 17 towing my trailer. Note how the


Those reviews were using a light (around 5k) boat, possibly the easiest thing to tow. Other trailers (enclosed car, RV, etc) will do worse.

The 3.0 Ecodiesel will breathe like a 6.0 Diesel under a large load, just like the Ecoboost is basically a 7.0 engine under boost.

If you think you will hit 17MPG towing an enclosed trailer, I think you will be disappointed.

You did pretty much call it. I've had the EcoDiesel for 2 months now. I can easily get 30mpg at 65mph. I get 26-28mpg for my 12mi daily commute.

My first roadtrip with the trailer was 440mi. a couple weeks ago. 24' 7400lb trailer, 2/3rds flat, 1/3rd rolling hills. I was carefull to stay well behind semis so there would be no drafting affect. Roundtrip mpg was 14.3. If I'd spent some time 2secs behind available semi's, I'd have been over 15. My 2000 Ford F-250 Diesel got 13-13.5 doing my usual bit of drafting.

The towing fuel mileage improvement isn't all that big, but the upgrade in comfortable ride and peace and quiet for these long roadtrips is helacious. The pre-emissions 2000 F-250 diesel is a darn efficient tow vehicle. Beating it in mpg is nothing to sneeze at.

2wd I assume? Great numbers though for a pickup. The unloaded highway mileage is very impressive though, and what would sway us to a diesel.

Yes 2WD. 3.55 rear end. As a tow vehicle I'm using it pretty close to it's rated capacity tho. W/o the $100 rear airbags she'd be sagging something fiece. I'm happy to be getting 2mpg better than a big modern 3/4ton diesel, but even if it did a little worse, the truck is such a comfortable and peaceful tow that all else is just chaff. The old 6-8hr tows with the roaring loud engine and each freeway expansion crack pounding my spine were not looked forward to.

I used to aggressively buy into the idea that one needed a lot of spare capacity on their truck. That towing at or near capacity was evil. I've since mellowed out on that idea. I had the truck so close to it's rated capacity that the difference was within measurement error and the truck really did terrific.

 

[Cujet]

I'm sure it's a nice truck, but I can't stomach that kind of price.

My 2009 4x4 Supercrew F150 5.4L lariat was purchased with rebates, for around $32K new. My 2011 F150 Ecoboost Supercrew XLT was $30K.

I'm sorry, but that $20,000 differential buys a LOT of fuel.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: RangerGress
I used to aggressively buy into the idea that one needed a lot of spare capacity on their truck. That towing at or near capacity was evil. I've since mellowed out on that idea. I had the truck so close to it's rated capacity that the difference was within measurement error and the truck really did terrific.


I have to wonder if rated numbers are starting to line up properly these days. Perhaps the rules are finally changing.

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm sure it's a nice truck, but I can't stomach that kind of price.

My 2009 4x4 Supercrew F150 5.4L lariat was purchased with rebates, for around $32K new. My 2011 F150 Ecoboost Supercrew XLT was $30K.

I'm sorry, but that $20,000 differential buys a LOT of fuel.


Same boat. I would love a diesel half-ton. But it makes more sense to have a cheap truck for the weekend that gets low mpg--and then a cheap econobox for the week. At least for me.

Still cool that diesel may be returning to half-tons. It should never have left in the first place.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: RangerGress


The race car is a perfect example. If you and I have 300ftlbs at redline, but my redline is 4000rpm and yours is 8000rpm, then I have to shift well before you do. But since I still have 300ftlbs when I upshift, this isn't a big disadvantage, it just means more shifting. But in terms of power the fact that you can hold 300ftlbs to twice my rpms means you have twice the hp. That sounds like a big deal but in reality it boils down to me shifting 2x as often.


one huge thing you dont mention here. When you shift you change the torque applied to the wheels.

for example 3rd gear is 1.346 and forth is(4th) 0.971

after you shift your engine is turning over 1/3 slower and putting over 1/3 less torque to the wheels.

so if you want to tow up a large grade at 65mph
the 8000rpm engine can do it in a much lower gear
and get much more torque to the wheels. Than a 4000rpm engine.

in fact the 8000rpm engine would have twice the HP of the 4000 RPM engine you mention in your example.

 

[hattaresguy]

The problem with diesel here is a cost, which is roughly $.70-$1 more than regular.

I just paid $3.77 yesterday and I think diesel is around $4.50 right now.

 

[supton]

That's because you are in CT. Less than 50c difference here. And of course if one has a lower cost per mile, then it's a win.

I wonder what the latest and greatest GM/Dodge V8's are getting. I have a tough time believing the tow setups are getting even 24 in the real world.

 

[hattaresguy]

Low 20's according to the Chevy truck forums, even trucks with the 6.2 seem to do OK.

 

[Rand]

speaking of diesel right now its 3.87$ for gas and 4.09 for diesel..


but diesel always stays 3.89 to 4.09

gas has been between 3.20 and 4.04 locally

actually I just checked on gasbuddy and gas has dropped to 3.59 10miles away.

I love diesel, give me a ranger with the 2.5 diesel that gets 30mpg and can tow 5000lb

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
I'm sure it's a nice truck, but I can't stomach that kind of price.

My 2009 4x4 Supercrew F150 5.4L lariat was purchased with rebates, for around $32K new. My 2011 F150 Ecoboost Supercrew XLT was $30K.

I'm sorry, but that $20,000 differential buys a LOT of fuel.

Seems like its not that much more.

Originally Posted By: RangerGress

Once the negotiation finishes I'm expecting about $35k, so about $6k under my MSRP. The MSRP prices on the site are always high. Most everyone's getting about $4k under MSRP but the dealer is a racing buddy.

 

[RangerGress]

I've had my Ecodiesel for a couple months now. I didn't end up with the truck that I'd ordered. It got stuck in QA Hold for a month and I ran out of patience so I bought a truck off of a lot. I ended up with a Laramie, MSRP $47.6k, my price $39.6k. I didn't get any kind of special price, they'd have given that deal to anyone.

The truck is really terrific. The previous tow vehicle and 50% daily driver was a 2000 F-250 which was loud, austere and harshly sprung. Driving it was punishing. The Ram Ecodiesel drives like a big quiet sedan. I couldn't be more pleased.

My first tow was 440miles round trip. 24' enclosed 7600lb trailer, 850lbs tongue weight, w/ a weight distro hitch. I put Airlift 1000 airbags (4 ton." In the end I decided that the changes in how the truck felt were all related to the difference between towing in a precise handling vehicle vs. a vague lumbering beast.

The F-250 has the well-thought-of Powerstroke 7.3. The last of the pre-emmissions diesels. As such it always got about 1mpg better than the more modern diesels. The Ecodiesel got 1mpg (14.4) better than the F-250 on the same route at the same speed that I've driven for years.

The DD mileage of the Ecodiesel is just unbelievable. On my short 12mi commute to work, 2/3rds freeway, I can get 28mpg if I go easy on the throttle.

The cargo capacity of my truck per it's VIN is 1260lbs. My usual tongue weight is 800lbs. Add me, the 12gal aux fuel tank and some gear and I'm pretty much at 1260lbs. My towing capacity is 7800lbs and my trailer is usually 7400lbs. In both cases i'm uncomfortably close to the truck's rating. In years past I was an aggressive proponent of always having much more tow vehicle then the job strictly called for. I've grown less excited about that over the years tho. W/o the airbags tho, the truck would have sagged like a broken plowhorse.

With no air in the airbags the trailer caused the front to lift 1" and the rear to drop 3". With 35psi in the airbags the front lift was almost nothing and the rear dropped slightly more than an inch. That's about what the F-250 did.

 

[Rand]

Thanks for the continued feedback.

Sounds like a great truck for someone that is buying a f150/1500 size truck.

Any idea what kind of average MPG you would get running 70-75mph?

 

[kkreit01]

Very nice review. I miss my Ram when it comes to long trips and freeway driving. It was so roomy, and smooth-riding on the highway. I don't miss it when it comes to parking, filling gas, washing, waxing, etc. Your daily commute MPG is phenomenal. My commute was very similar, and I had to struggle to get 13-14 MPG with the Hemi. Mine had 3.92s, A/T tires, could tow >10K, and I was rarely "easy on the throttle"

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