Racing + bad rod bearing....

Neonmike22 · Nov 3, 2002

= this:
A friend i race with gave me this engine after tearing it out of a neon. We knew it likely had a spun bearing or something, it went from having a light rod sounding knock to totally kaput after an autocross one weekend. Anyhow tuesday i opened it up and had a look-see. Apparently this engine wasn't too well taken care of besides the mobil 1 oil changes:

Pulling the oil pan didn't look too promising either....

So i started pulling out pistons... All was well on cylinder #4, but after that, all hell broke loose:

Keeping with my original theory, fram sucks *** .

The crank looks fudged up pretty bad, if the mains are bad too i probably won't re-use it. The cylinder bores are all really nice and smooth, almost no visible wear thanks to the mobil 1 and moly rings. We'll see where this goes next.

Neonmike22 · Nov 3, 2002

MolaKule: I really don't know in this case. It had already spun a bearing, but he chose to autocross on it anyhow. By the end of the event it was getting pretty noisy and was WAY down on power. Neons are known for oil starvation during high RPM turns, which could be the case here. Since the #2 bearing looks to have the most damage, it's consistent with other neons having the same failure. That's my basement, the garage is too full of cars!

Dragboat: I'll likely be using stronger aftermarket rods and higher compression pistons for this engine if i do rebuild it. The owner told me he used nothing but M1 5w30 since break-in. Here's another pic of the crank:

Now i'm hardly an engine builder, this is my first project with an engine's bottom end, but that looks pretty bad to me.

[ November 04, 2002, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Neonmike22 ]

MolaKule · Nov 4, 2002

Aw heck, I've seen worse.

Wonder why a spun bearing; antifreeze in oil due to head gasket leak, failed oil pump,
too low a viscosity of oil???

Have the CS ground 0.010" and put in undersize (thicker) bearings.

MolaKule · Nov 4, 2002

Mike,

Your garage looks mine; fishing rods on one side and engines and oil on the other.

dragboat · Nov 4, 2002

While down I would have the big end of the rods resized and if the pistons feel notchy have them pin fitted.

I noticed no blueing of the parts,just the layers of the trimetal bearings coming off "what I could see from the pics".

Did that motor ever have a engine oil treatment put in it?

Edit:
hard to tell if layers coming off or metal ran through them ?

[ November 04, 2002, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

Neonmike22 · Dec 2, 2002

Figured i'd bump this to the top and see if anyone else had an opinion.

BOBISTHEOILGUY · Dec 2, 2002

If you goto my main page I have a link to examinations of rod bearings that can maybe show you something about it's demise...
Here's the direct link to Bearing Wear

Bror Jace · Dec 2, 2002

NeonMike22, how many miles on this engine before it spun a bearing?

Neonmike22 · Dec 2, 2002

I'd say there was about 50k? I don't know a whole lot about it's life aside from racing.

mebanditws6 · Dec 3, 2002

Neon engines are one of the worst engines out there in terms of durability. They are prone to blowing head gaskets, throwing rods/spinning bearings, and burning LOTS of oil. When you get this thing back together use some thicker oil than 5w30. That or use some 10w30 and some Lucas. Sure the Lucas didn't do well on Bob's bearing test but mix it with oil and that makes a VERY slippery and clinging combination. At the local O'Reilly store they have one of those gear turners and the one with lucas and oil is about half as hard to turn as the one with just oil. There are those that aren't a big fan of this stuff but it has been proven to work.

Jason

Greg · Dec 4, 2002

quote:

At the local O'Reilly store they have one of those gear turners and the one with lucas and oil is about half as hard to turn as the one with just oil.

they're exactly the same, you can feel the gears a bit more with straight oil. but what is this thing supposed to demonstrate? how well it can climb? thanks but i'll stick to my oil pump.

BOBISTHEOILGUY · Dec 4, 2002

Jason, You said, There are those that aren't a big fan of this stuff but it has been proven to work.

OK, show me where it has been proven to work.. BTW, no BS sales pages on their web site would constitute it as proven. I want to know how YOU KNOW that it is proven.

BTW, it has no barrier additive protection to offer, it climbs, great in a rear end or manual tranny but in an engine, it serves no purpose as you are in a pressurized oil system using an oil pump so lubrication is there all the time so no need to cling on anything, and it also would cause the oil not to pump as easily causing the engine to run slightly warmer if the oil flow is reduced. This product does nothing for an engine but give you the warm feeling your doing some thing more than just relying on chemists that designed that oil your using. BTW, If an additive is a must for you, WHY? you don't like the oil? then why not try a different oil that doesnt' rely on having additives added to it? At least your not playing home chemist trying to build your own.

[ December 04, 2002, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

Neonmike22 · Dec 4, 2002

I disagree with your opinion on the neon engine. It's probably one of the better 4cyls i've worked on.

quote:

Originally posted by mebanditws6:
Neon engines are one of the worst engines out there in terms of durability. They are prone to blowing head gaskets, throwing rods/spinning bearings, and burning LOTS of oil.

Yes, there are/were issues. But, folks like me have learned solutions to them, for the most part preventing failures.

I've done my homework, the crummy composite head gaskets (including my old one) are gone with the 90s; replaced with a multilayer steel one that hasn't given anyone problems when installed correctly.

Most of the rod bearing issues I've ever heard of come from race tires and the stock suspension. Lots of bodyroll and cornering G forces combined with high RPMS associated with the DOHC engine can cause the pickup to suck up air. The SOHC cars don't have this problem, as they have the same oil capacity, but less oil is needed in the cylinder head leaving more in the pan. Since i plan on racing with this engine, i'm going to be looking into a baffled oil pan that holds more oil and keeps it around the pickup.

As for the oil burning (not associated with poor maintainence) it usually involves the make up air tube in the valve cover, a simple one way valve corrects this. The Moly rings seem to seal pretty well for a long time.

quote:

Originally posted by mebanditws6:
When you get this thing back together use some thicker oil than 5w30. That or use some 10w30 and some Lucas. Sure the Lucas didn't do well on Bob's bearing test but mix it with oil and that makes a VERY slippery and clinging combination.

You said yourself that the engine has bearing issues.
I'd say something that did poorly on the bearing test probably doesn't belong in my engine for just that reason.

quote:

Originally posted by mebanditws6:
At the local O'Reilly store they have one of those gear turners and the one with lucas and oil is about half as hard to turn as the one with just oil. There are those that aren't a big fan of this stuff but it has been proven to work.

There's no gears in this engine.

[ December 05, 2002, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: Neonmike22 ]

Chris 2421 · Dec 7, 2002

Neon Mike is correct.I'm a certified ASE and Chrysler master technician,and I've had hardly any problems with the Neon engines.If this engine was so bad,BMW would not be using a version of it in the new Mini.These engines need a good baffle in the pan when racing,to stop the bearing problems,which are related to the pickup being starved for oil.This is what appears to have happened in this engine.Moroso happens to have a excellent oil pan for this engine.

[ December 07, 2002, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Chris 2421 ]

Racing + bad rod bearing....

Similar threads