R18 Engine Failure... Oil Burn Related

[beastykato]

I'm in a bit of a predicament right now in getting Honda to honer my extended powertrain warranty on my 2008 Honda Civic EX. I have never had a problem with my car in the past burning oil, but between my last oil change and this failure, apparently my engine was able to burn off [censored] near ALL of the oil. I even topped it off with about a quart of oil about ~2 weeks prior to the engine failure. My engine only has ~70,000mi on it btw.

How and why this happened is what leaves me stumped so I figured this forum might be a good place to ask. The service manager that tore my engine apart said that my engine is totally clean and in his own words said, " There is no evidence of any lack of maintenance from looking inside the engine and oil pan." He can not explain to me where the oil went to though when I asked him for an explanation. There were no leaks found or anything like that. So, when the HondaCare warranty adjuster came and took photos and the service manager said he can't explain where the oil went, they automatically jumped to the conclusion that I simply didn't check my oil and because I don't have complete service records because I did my own oil changes (yeah, learned my lesson on keeping all my receipts).

I know there are TSB's on my engine for the block cracking, porous block, and head gasket problems. That alone just makes me think something is up with this because there is no way my engine consumed all that oil between oil changes if it was operating properly. Additionally, I saw no spike in engine temperature and no low pressure light until I had to brake hard one night and the oil lamp flashed. Which, is what made me check it and top my engine off in the first place.

Any help or explanation is greatly appreciated! Right now I'm looking at 4-5k for this repair alone plus my rental fees. Not that it matters but I've only run Pennzoil Platinum and Purolator oil filters on this car since day one and a brief run with Amsoil 5w-20XL. The service manager is trying his best to help me out and the district manager from Honda is involved now, but I have yet to speak with him or receive word on any conclusion.

 

[OVERKILL]

How often were you checking your oil?

 

[Mau]

did you notice blue smoke out of the exhaust ? Did you drive the car hard (high rpm shifts)?

 

[beastykato]

I check my oil every few weeks. I go per the maintenance minder on the system as far as oil changes go and don't do extended drains. Prior to the failure it was less than 2 weeks since I topped it off.

I thought about the smoke from the exhaust and I know I personally did not notice any. No one I know pointed anything out to me either. I rarely run my engine too hard. My typical drive is to work 30mi of mostly highway in one direction. I usually drive very conservatively for gas mileage and kept it under 3500rpm to stay in iVTEC. My typical speed on my commute is 65-75mph. Have I ever done a high rpm shift? Absolutely, but I drive my car very gently 95% of the time and have not changed my driving habits.

*I want to mention too that that was the first time I have ever had to top my car off between oil changes since I bought it new.

 

[Rob_Roy]

What exactly "failed" in your engine?

Honda's opinion of "excessive oil consumption" is more than 1 quart per 1000 miles...so it is possible to consume all oil during a typical OCI. As for consuming 3+ quarts in 2 weeks, that would be pretty extreme - I would expect a heavy oil reside inside the tailpipe.

 

[KrisZ]

Get them to check the coolant for oil. If the block was cracked, there must be some oil in there. As for the reason why engine failed, only a tear down can truly find the cause.

You have to try and dig out as much receipts as possible. If you bought oil on credit card, get those records as well. Otherwise be prepared to hire a lawyer.

 

[SteveSRT8]

I'm sorry but if the car was run on low oil that is liable to be placed on you.

I cannot drive a car without raising the hood first. I don't own any oil burners right now but too many years of nursing beaters has made me OCD about raising the hood.

 

[beastykato]

Well, the engine was still operating normally and then the bearings started making noise. I took it straight to the dealer at that point. They are saying it needs to basically be totally replaced at this point.

Thankfully, I use my credit card for everything. I rarely use cash so hopefully I can get a list from them that is categorized to show all my auto related purchases over the life of the vehicle.

My commute over the last 2 weeks was 60 miles to work for 10 days plus whatever mileage I put on it going out. So, more than 1000 miles is pushing it I'd say.

 

[barlowc]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I'm sorry but if the car was run on low oil that is liable to be placed on you.

I cannot drive a car without raising the hood first. I don't own any oil burners right now but too many years of nursing beaters has made me OCD about raising the hood.

Raising the hood and checking the oil level every time you drive a car someplace!? No one does that and we can't claim negligence on the OP's part because he didn't.

 

[suspiciousmind]

The air filter's clean?

Every time I hear an oil consumption issue, I think air filter. If the engine can't breathe as it should, it'll find air somewhere else.....from the crankcase.

 

[SLCraig]

Strange.. I have an '11 R18 and it burns next to nothing. Over about 10,000 KM OCI it burns maybe 1/3 of a quart which really doesn't even matter. The last OCI I didn't top off the car at all before I changed the oil. I watch mine somewhat closely but I don't check every week. I may just check once a week from now on.

 

[JimPghPA]

What brand and type of oil were you using?

Did the low oil light come on? And if so did you or someone else run the engine with the low oil light on?

 

[tig1]

Some things can't be explained. A friend had a late 70s MB diesel they bought new. Just after the warranty expired(40K) the oil pump failed and locked the engine. This is when these engines were expected to go for 300-400K.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted By: barlowc
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I'm sorry but if the car was run on low oil that is liable to be placed on you.

I cannot drive a car without raising the hood first. I don't own any oil burners right now but too many years of nursing beaters has made me OCD about raising the hood.

Raising the hood and checking the oil level every time you drive a car someplace!? No one does that and we can't claim negligence on the OP's part because he didn't.


Indeed I am more AR than most but at most I check my oil level twice a week but more often than not just twice a month.

Also I agree even the best maintained vehicle things like this happen, nothing is perfectly manufactured. Keep us posted on what you find out.

 

[MajorCavalry]

It is a known fact that these engines had a problem with the block casting. Porosities, if they are going to develop, will occur at higher mileages (approx 70K and above). Honda has a TSB on this and will replace the engine up to 150K.

My son had the same car but fortunatly did not develop this problem.

Good luck.

 

[IndyIan]

I would argue that you checked your oil regularly following the engines normal consumption pattern over the last 70k miles like a responsible owner, then you took immediate action at the first indication of unusual oil consumption when you saw the oil pressure light flicker.
Give them the date of your last top up and approximate mileage, and that would show that the engine had to be burning/losing oil at a faster than Honda's acceptable rate. So in any case they would've been inside your engine, wether you caught it earlier or not.

 

[2oldtommy]

There must be some evidence of leakage on the underside of your car. Was there an oil filter gasket leak? Is it possible the crush Washer was not installed? (I have done this myself.) If the engine was out of oil long enough to damage the bearings, then I can assume you drove it more than 100ft. with the oil pressure light on. Perhaps you were not aware that the bearings receive no lubrication if the light goes on. It is not a light to ignore such as a 'check engine light'. It means STOP the engine NOW! FWIW--Oldtommy

 

[Trav]

Quote:
they automatically jumped to the conclusion that I simply didn't check my oil


Sorry but anytime they start down this road it usually ends up with you needing a lawyer and its going to take time, lots of it.
I hope you make out alright with this but prepare for the worst beforehand.

 

[bladecutter]

Originally Posted By: beastykato
There were no leaks found or anything like that. So, when the HondaCare warranty adjuster came and took photos and the service manager said he can't explain where the oil went, they automatically jumped to the conclusion that I simply didn't check my oil and because I don't have complete service records because I did my own oil changes (yeah, learned my lesson on keeping all my receipts).


First off, if your engine was burning oil past the piston rings, it should be plainly obvious looking at the pistons and cylinder walls that the oil was being consumed that way.

Second, if the back pressure in the engine was high enough that it was causing the oil to get sucked into the PCV system, there would be raw oil in the PCV and EGR system, and the piston crowns should be covered in carbon, and the intake valves should be oily.

Third, and this one is really important, if you had been neglecting the car by not checking your oil level, there would be sludge and carbon deposits in the cylinder head area from oil that was abused, and circulated. The inside of the oil pan should have baked on oil carbon all over it.

If your engine was spotless inside, then you need to push back and say there's no sign of neglect or abuse, and they need to fix it.

Here's my theory:

Your last oil change, who ever did the work, didn't put enough oil in.

That explains the no signs of a leak, no visible issues inside the engine of long term abuse, and the eventual quick death of the engine.

The only other theory I have is this:

You made someone really angry, and they drained the oil out of your engine.

BC.

 

[fdcg27]

THIS^^
Engines don't typically start consuming mondo amounts of oil with no warning, and serious leaks are usually unmistakable.
If the dealer won't cover it, look to you auto insurer, although they may try to wash their hands of it as well.
Whatever happened here doesn't look like owner negelect.
You have my sincere empathy, but I think you will personally end up paying for an engine.