Quicksilver 20w-50 or VR1 for 2011 Harley 103ci?

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
...Here's something to ponder, Why do they make gear oil if it's not to be used in a transmission?.,,,


They make gear oil and the purpose of it was for gearcases/differentials as has been always the case, going back decades, not transmissions.

Example: 1978 Honda Accord 5 speed manual transmission. Motor oil, not gear oil.
Bottom line is, you should use the oil OR gear lube that is recommended by the manufacturer, why someone thinks they are smarter then them and would not listen to the people that make the product is beyond me. Yet when someone like Barnett Clutches says to use a specific oil, somehow they become god like over the manufacturer. (its almost laughable) )

Just an example, click here

I just noticed Honda still to this day says to use motor oil in its automotive manual transmissions. One of the most reliable cars on the market. Hmmmmm ...
Bottom line, all I say and ever say is to use the recommended fluid types.

 

[BigCahuna]

You must be confused, this is a Harley site ,not a Honda site. The reason thousands of people use GEAR oil instead of motor oil in their transmissions in their Harley is because it works better.Quiets down the bearing noise, helps with a more positive feel when shifting, and can aid in getting rid of that annoying clunk/bang going into 1st gear. Which they must be designed to do from the factory, from the maker who's "knows better" what oil to use.Harley's plan must be to use motor oil that can and will shear down to a 10 wt oil, have it leak past the seals, cause excessive wear on gears and shift mechanism , and then have you bring it back for a rebuild. All from the people that recommended it. Aren't you tired of drinking the cool aid yet?.,,,,

 

[DuckRyder]

Are we really at this again?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
You must be confused, this is a Harley site ,not a Honda site. The reason thousands of people use GEAR oil instead of motor oil in their transmissions in their Harley is because it works better.Quiets down the bearing noise, helps with a more positive feel when shifting, and can aid in getting rid of that annoying clunk/bang going into 1st gear. Which they must be designed to do from the factory, from the maker who's "knows better" what oil to use.Harley's plan must be to use motor oil that can and will shear down to a 10 wt oil, have it leak past the seals, cause excessive wear on gears and shift mechanism , and then have you bring it back for a rebuild. All from the people that recommended it. Aren't you tired of drinking the cool aid yet?.,,,,


Hmmm ... Harley site? You must be confused. Amazing when you think about it, Harley rather have their transmissions sound clucky and work like [censored] (as you imply) rather then use a gear oil. I bet they know more then you and "thousands" of others. As Honda automobiles does as well. The people with motorcycles, are in the millions that use what is supposed to be used which is motor oil vs your thousands who choose gear oil.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Are we really at this again?


Amazing isnt it????

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I thought HD primary oil was basically heavy-weight motor oil and their transmission fluid was gear oil (smells like it).

Either way, I run ATF in the primary (shifts like butter and finding neutral is much easier than with HD primary oil) and GL5 gear oil in the transmission.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
You must be confused, this is a Harley site ,not a Honda site. The reason thousands of people use GEAR oil instead of motor oil in their transmissions in their Harley is because it works better.Quiets down the bearing noise, helps with a more positive feel when shifting, and can aid in getting rid of that annoying clunk/bang going into 1st gear. Which they must be designed to do from the factory, from the maker who's "knows better" what oil to use.Harley's plan must be to use motor oil that can and will shear down to a 10 wt oil, have it leak past the seals, cause excessive wear on gears and shift mechanism , and then have you bring it back for a rebuild. All from the people that recommended it. Aren't you tired of drinking the cool aid yet?.,,,,


Hmmm ... Harley site? You must be confused. Amazing when you think about it, Harley rather have their transmissions sound clucky and work like [censored] (as you imply) rather then use a gear oil. I bet they know more then you and "thousands" of others. As Honda automobiles does as well. The people with motorcycles, are in the millions that use what is supposed to be used which is motor oil vs your thousands who choose gear oil.


I think the concern stems from older gear oils weren't compatible with yellow-metals (brass, bronze, etc..) typically used in automotive transmissions (synchros). Most, if not all, MC transmissions do not use synchros. Also, traditionally, gear oils were only used in differentials or devices only contain gears and bearings (no soft metals inside).

Many gear oils also have EPs, so they'd be a bad choice in transmissions that share oil with clutches. Unless you buy a MC-specific gear oil compatible with wet clutches.

In reality most motor, ATF or gear oils would work in a motorcycle transmission.

 

[BigCahuna]

I posted "site" instead of "post". Sue me. It still doesn't change the facts that Harley's oil just plain sucks in their transmissions. If anyone who reads this wants a good laugh, go down to your local Harley dealer and wait for someone with a new Harley to start up their bike and leave. Listen for the bang/crunch as they place their new freshly serviced into first gear.I'm sure you first thought will be " whats wrong with that bike?". That noise that will make you cringe is brought to you by Harley's own transmission oil, that with all their experience and knowledge say is the right oil for you to use. Some people refuse to wake up and seek out a better choice. They just love the cool aid.,,,

 

[gman2304]

^^^^^^^ WOW! ^^^^^^^

 

[alarmguy]

[/quote]


In reality most motor, ATF or gear oils would work in a motorcycle transmission.
[/quote]

I will agree with you on that because many people do, many people also do things like that to automobiles, ATVs and more.

I wont, I use the fluid types recommended by the manufacturer who have the most interest, most research trial and extensive testing, most knowledge in seeing their products live long lives.

Im not sure why many people experiment with non recommended fluids for perceived notion that something else is better. Ive never done it on my cars, bikes, boats and I dont think many people would do it on their Mazdas or my sons new BMW or my bosses wife 150K Mercedes.

Dont it make a difference? I have no idea but know I have a better shot of trouble free engine, transmission and primary then some others posting in here about ridiculous "kool aid" uninformed nonsense because they think they know better then the people who designed the product. Amazing.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
I thought HD primary oil was basically heavy-weight motor oil and their transmission fluid was gear oil (smells like it).

Either way, I run ATF in the primary (shifts like butter and finding neutral is much easier than with HD primary oil) and GL5 gear oil in the transmission.


There is no specific Harley "primary oil" and specific "transmission fluid" they are both the same.
Its Harley called Formula Plus (+) made for Harley Primarys and Transmissions. Which everyone agrees is a conventional GL1 type oil.
Harley also allows 20/50 automotive/motorcycle oil to be used instead of Primary Plus in the primary and transmission. (Of course they recommend their own 20/50 synthetic HD oil)

 

[BigCahuna]

So there's no specific primary or transmission fluid they are all the same. Hmm, so what's their reasoning for recommending it for a greatly inflated price? I guess you could use motor oil also. Wait, they also recommend that .Might as well use diesel oil while your at it. Wait, they recommend that also. I guess you can really put your faith in Harley's oil recommendations. And to use another brand or motor oil in your motor, or gear oil in your transmission is really gonna cause major problems?. your a true Kool Aid junkie.,,,

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
So there's no specific primary or transmission fluid they are all the same. Hmm, so what's their reasoning for recommending it for a greatly inflated price? I guess you could use motor oil also. Wait, they also recommend that .Might as well use diesel oil while your at it. Wait, they recommend that also. I guess you can really put your faith in Harley's oil recommendations. And to use another brand or motor oil in your motor, or gear oil in your transmission is really gonna cause major problems?. your a true Kool Aid junkie.,,,


Your really confused ....

 

[BigCahuna]

Your right. I 'm confused why you come to this site and promote only using factory Brand / Sold oil products. Regardless of the proof of aftermarket lubes that have been proven to out perform Harley oils, and think because they say to use it and sell it, it works the best. I'm also confused about why you would use some off brand diesel oil in your new bike, instead of just buying Harley oil? After all, they know best right? Whats up with that move? Then come on here and try to tell everyone that Harley is the only authority on whats right to use in your bike. It's too bad they can't fool everyone with that, just the new inexperienced buyers.,,,

 

[rossn2]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy



In reality most motor, ATF or gear oils would work in a motorcycle transmission.
[/quote]

I will agree with you on that because many people do, many people also do things like that to automobiles, ATVs and more.

I wont, I use the fluid types recommended by the manufacturer who have the most interest, most research trial and extensive testing, most knowledge in seeing their products live long lives.

Im not sure why many people experiment with non recommended fluids for perceived notion that something else is better. Ive never done it on my cars, bikes, boats and I dont think many people would do it on their Mazdas or my sons new BMW or my bosses wife 150K Mercedes.

Dont it make a difference? I have no idea but know I have a better shot of trouble free engine, transmission and primary then some others posting in here about ridiculous "kool aid" uninformed nonsense because they think they know better then the people who designed the product. Amazing. [/quote]

So if you bought a Polaris ATV, you would only use Polaris oil?
If you bought a new Hyundai you would only use Quaker State oil?
A Dodge/Chrysler/Ram product only Mopar Oil?
etc, etc, etc

All because the Manufacturers recommend it?

 

[alarmguy]

[/quote]

So if you bought a Polaris ATV, you would only use Polaris oil?
If you bought a new Hyundai you would only use Quaker State oil?
A Dodge/Chrysler/Ram product only Mopar Oil?
etc, etc, etc

All because the Manufacturers recommend it?

[/quote]

Ummm, answer: No
Like my post said "fluid type" nothing mentioned about brand.

My point was,

If your Honda Accord recommended 10/40 motor oil in the transmission, would you use 75/90 gear oil?

If you know GL1 motor oil is used and recommended by Harley Davidson would you use 75/90 or 85/140 gear oil?

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Your right. I 'm confused why you come to this site and promote only using factory Brand / Sold oil products.



Like I said, yes, you are confused, no sense in me responding with you in the future we have a communication gap. Even the first sentence of the reply above, after a year of talking with you, that sentence could not be further from the truth. )

In fact, for anyone else reading these posts, unlike you, my statements are based on real UOAs and VOAs that I and others in here paid for and real world experience of other riders..

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Isn't GL1 "gear-oil"... minus the EP additives? I know the transmission oil in my '98 softail smelled like typical GL-4/5 gear oil, i.e. sulfur.

Harley used to recommended separate oil for all three "holes". Now they consolidated to two. Why? Probably they found a suitable oil for both the primary and transmission. It cheaper to "produce" one oil and sell at a premium.

Manufacturer's are only interested in vehicles lasting through the warranty period in reality. Ever seen "fill for life" fluid, like older BMW auto trannys and differentials (i.e., life for them is 60-100k miles).

On my new bike, Yamaha makes no mention of replacing fork oil... just says to replace the forks. Seriously? So as an educated consumer, sometimes you have to go against what the manufacturer recommends.

Obviously this is an oil-enthusiast site... but sometimes common sense should prevail. I've seen motorcycle transmissions spec'd (by manufacturer) from motor oil, to gear oil to ATF. In my book any one of those would work and as last the life of the vehicle as long as their were chosen correctly (correct oil weight, non-EC for wet clutch, non sulfur or EP for soft-metal containing trannys, etc...) and serviced.

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Isn't GL1 "gear-oil"... minus the EP additives? I know the transmission oil in my '98 softail smelled like typical GL-4/5 gear oil, i.e. sulfur.

Harley used to recommended separate oil for all three "holes". Now they consolidated to two. Why? Probably they found a suitable oil for both the primary and transmission. It cheaper to "produce" one oil and sell at a premium.

Manufacturer's are only interested in vehicles lasting through the warranty period in reality. Ever seen "fill for life" fluid, like older BMW auto trannys and differentials (i.e., life for them is 60-100k miles).

On my new bike, Yamaha makes no mention of replacing fork oil... just says to replace the forks. Seriously? So as an educated consumer, sometimes you have to go against what the manufacturer recommends.

Obviously this is an oil-enthusiast site... but sometimes common sense should prevail. I've seen motorcycle transmissions spec'd (by manufacturer) from motor oil, to gear oil to ATF. In my book any one of those would work and as last the life of the vehicle as long as their were chosen correctly (correct oil weight, non-EC for wet clutch, non sulfur or EP for soft-metal containing trannys, etc...) and serviced.


Engine motor oil is GL1 we all know that. Gear oils GL4 or GL5

Knowing this, no matter what product or brand, car, boat, motorcycle, lawnmower or airplane. I personally choose the type of fluid the manufacture specs for the vehicle. They know better then me. I dont care what brand the fluid type is, but I do care that it is in the same class of fluids. GL1, GL4, GL5.

I see the words "koolaid" mentioned by someone else in here.
When people choose different spec'ed fluids of a different class (ex. GL1, GL4, GL5) then what is used by the manufacturer I think they are doing so based on nothing more then "drinking the koolaid" of the maker of those products. All marketing, no industry standard tests on these products to prove it. More or less, they are buying snake oil.

Does it matter? maybe not but I doubt very much choosing fluids types not recommended by the manufacturers are going to be better for the vehicle and possibly worse then if you choose the recommended type of fluid.

This choosing of a fluid type different then what is recommended seems to be prevalent with motorcycle owners. You will find much less fluid type switching among automobile owners. Im not sure why, maybe motorcycles to some are more of a toy to play around with or some just read labels on bottles of fluids and feel better about switching to a different class of fluids. That is fine if they choose to do so, its their choice. I am simply posting why I choose not to.

As far as your Yamaha fork oil. Im one to change fluids sooner rather then later then the recommended intervals, again, with the same class of fluids. A manufacturer would not think that is a bad thing. I bet when you do change your fork oil, you will use a fork oil class of fluids and not a GL1 motor oil or GL4 or 5 gear oil. Unless again, you know for a fact the fork oil is in one of those classes.

 

[alarmguy]

Ps to the above, as an extreme example, but to shine some perspective on things, knowingly using a different class of fluids in an airplane that carries the public would be a criminal offense. Even if the owner thought it was "better".