Questions about picking the best CLP.
- Thread starter Jinx18
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For me the best "CLP" is not originally a gun product at all. Corrosion X original is the best product I have tried and I have tried many over the years. For rust prevention and extreme lubrication it can't be beat. It also works well as a basic gun cleaner and penetrant. It can replace almost any basic lubricant or rust preventative around the work shop or house. I also mix corrosion X with odorless mineral spirits (75% odorless mineral spirit to 25% corrosion X original) and it makes an excellent cleaning solvent for guns, tools and whatever else. Corrosion X is also the best air tool lubricant I have ever used. It is less toxic than many others and has a very light smell to it. All this being said, corrosion X is also cheaper than most gun specific CLPs, especially when purchased in bulk.
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
I haven't tried it yet because I recently bought a 32 oz bottle of MPro7 cleaner which was probably too much since the first 4 oz lasted a few years. (I guess I can afford to soak the barrels now)
I have half at least 1/2 a bottle of the MPro7 clp left that started at 2 oz for 5 years which I primarily use as gun oil and it's great for that.
Something that's on my radar for a dedicated oil that some of you guys might appreciate is the royal purple gun oil, looks like a good product and it's got synerlec in it
I haven't tried it yet because I recently bought a 32 oz bottle of MPro7 cleaner which was probably too much since the first 4 oz lasted a few years. (I guess I can afford to soak the barrels now)
I have half at least 1/2 a bottle of the MPro7 clp left that started at 2 oz for 5 years which I primarily use as gun oil and it's great for that.
Something that's on my radar for a dedicated oil that some of you guys might appreciate is the royal purple gun oil, looks like a good product and it's got synerlec in it
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
Lol I thought the same thing, hardly inspection ready like I am used to. That being said, he shoots a lot and his cleanings are enough to make the guns function perfectly. Very few of his guns jam or act up on his videos and he doesn't do alot of editing, if a gun acts up, he shows it.
I think that is the part that gets lost in translation when discussions about Ballistol come up. Is Ballistol a high technology, state of the art product using the latest ingredients? No. Is it tested to the current highest military standards with a 4 ball wear scar of .00002 mm? Nope. Is it a basic powder solvent that softens firing residues and carbon to allow them to be brushed or wiped away? Yes. Does it provide a very light lubricating film to allow the parts to work together? Yes. Does it prevent rust under normal indoor storage conditions? You bet.
The point is Ballistol is just fine for most folks and most shooting purposes. It provides a very simple 1 step gun product that cleans and lubricates well enough for any firearm that is working properly. If you gun needs some super duper slick high tech lube to operate and it doesn't work with any other product, chances are it has something mechanically wrong with it. Firearms lubrication is more about light friction reduction than actual wear reduction anyways. I don't care what gun product you use, parts will eventually wear and need to be replaced if you use a firearm on a regular basis. I still use and recommend Ballistol simply because it one of the few products that cleans both corrosive and black powder. It is also very versatile, so non toxic to the point that it is nearly edible and I actually enjoy the smell. I don't use it as my main CLP anymore but I wouldn't hesitate if I had to. There are plenty of other highly engineered lubricants I can recommend if you really feel you need/want them. If you want something simple, versatile and nearly non toxic that covers all the basic gun care needs in one step, Ballistol is a good choice.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
Lol I thought the same thing, hardly inspection ready like I am used to. That being said, he shoots a lot and his cleanings are enough to make the guns function perfectly. Very few of his guns jam or act up on his videos and he doesn't do alot of editing, if a gun acts up, he shows it.
I think that is the part that gets lost in translation when discussions about Ballistol come up. Is Ballistol a high technology, state of the art product using the latest ingredients? No. Is it tested to the current highest military standards with a 4 ball wear scar of .00002 mm? Nope. Is it a basic powder solvent that softens firing residues and carbon to allow them to be brushed or wiped away? Yes. Does it provide a very light lubricating film to allow the parts to work together? Yes. Does it prevent rust under normal indoor storage conditions? You bet.
The point is Ballistol is just fine for most folks and most shooting purposes. It provides a very simple 1 step gun product that cleans and lubricates well enough for any firearm that is working properly. If you gun needs some super duper slick high tech lube to operate and it doesn't work with any other product, chances are it has something mechanically wrong with it. Firearms lubrication is more about light friction reduction than actual wear reduction anyways. I don't care what gun product you use, parts will eventually wear and need to be replaced if you use a firearm on a regular basis. I still use and recommend Ballistol simply because it one of the few products that cleans both corrosive and black powder. It is also very versatile, so non toxic to the point that it is nearly edible and I actually enjoy the smell. I don't use it as my main CLP anymore but I wouldn't hesitate if I had to. There are plenty of other highly engineered lubricants I can recommend if you really feel you need/want them. If you want something simple, versatile and nearly non toxic that covers all the basic gun care needs in one step, Ballistol is a good choice.
Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
What because he wasn't thorough enough? He cleans them after every time he shoots them, they don't get that dirty to begin with.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
What because he wasn't thorough enough? He cleans them after every time he shoots them, they don't get that dirty to begin with.
People over clean ARs. Inspection ready/white glove serves no purpose. Many people I know just add lube. Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so. They lube em up and burn em down, adding lube as needed. Get a new gun when that one won't hold groups at around 7500 rounds on their firing schedule. Me personally? I clean mine just because. Chamber brush, bore snake, wipe down and re lube the bcg and upper. But white glove? No. Noone I know does this.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
The earth's original CLP Ballistol works great for 95% of guns out there. The smell is different.... almost mediciny, not chemical like Hoppes #9.
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Originally Posted By: Ws6
People over clean ARs. Inspection ready/white glove serves no purpose. Many people I know just add lube. Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so. They lube em up and burn em down, adding lube as needed. Get a new gun when that one won't hold groups at around 7500 rounds on their firing schedule. Me personally? I clean mine just because. Chamber brush, bore snake, wipe down and re lube the bcg and upper. But white glove? No. Noone I know does this.
That's fine for all these guys who play run and gun in their Ninja suits, packing 20 pounds of gear and Velcro. Shooting magazine after magazine at silhouette targets 7 yards away, until their barrel is hot enough to light a cigarette off of. Accuracy means nothing to them. You could supply most of those guys with smoothbore barrels, and except for the key holing they wouldn't know the difference.
But for long range varmint hunters, National Match shooters, along with all other AR-15 owners who pay top dollar for an accurate, long range rifle, that dog won't hunt. They clean their barrels religiously to maintain top accuracy at the long ranges they shoot at. Fouled bores reduce accuracy. That is a proven fact. Especially in the smaller .22 caliber rifles which are more effected by heavy metallic fouling. Hodgdon CFE-223 powder has become one of the top selling powders for reloading .223 / 5.56 MM for this very reason. These guys strive for accuracy with every shot. And they won't get it with a dirty, fouled, half burned out bore. Regardless if it's in a high dollar AR-15, or a single shot bolt action.
People over clean ARs. Inspection ready/white glove serves no purpose. Many people I know just add lube. Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so. They lube em up and burn em down, adding lube as needed. Get a new gun when that one won't hold groups at around 7500 rounds on their firing schedule. Me personally? I clean mine just because. Chamber brush, bore snake, wipe down and re lube the bcg and upper. But white glove? No. Noone I know does this.
That's fine for all these guys who play run and gun in their Ninja suits, packing 20 pounds of gear and Velcro. Shooting magazine after magazine at silhouette targets 7 yards away, until their barrel is hot enough to light a cigarette off of. Accuracy means nothing to them. You could supply most of those guys with smoothbore barrels, and except for the key holing they wouldn't know the difference.
But for long range varmint hunters, National Match shooters, along with all other AR-15 owners who pay top dollar for an accurate, long range rifle, that dog won't hunt. They clean their barrels religiously to maintain top accuracy at the long ranges they shoot at. Fouled bores reduce accuracy. That is a proven fact. Especially in the smaller .22 caliber rifles which are more effected by heavy metallic fouling. Hodgdon CFE-223 powder has become one of the top selling powders for reloading .223 / 5.56 MM for this very reason. These guys strive for accuracy with every shot. And they won't get it with a dirty, fouled, half burned out bore. Regardless if it's in a high dollar AR-15, or a single shot bolt action.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Fouled bores don't reduce accuracy. Dirty bores do. A just-cleaned bore often produces initial fliers.
Want the best accuracy? Shoot that rifle a few times first.... then go for the gusto and blue ribbons. Just know when to wipe-down the bore - then shoot some more. No need to get that bore spanking clean during / in-between a typical range session.
Want the best accuracy? Shoot that rifle a few times first.... then go for the gusto and blue ribbons. Just know when to wipe-down the bore - then shoot some more. No need to get that bore spanking clean during / in-between a typical range session.
Not at all. He lost me when he started talking about lining up the gas rings and squirting oil in the gas ports. Obvious he does not know what he is talking about. Only thing he missed was squirting oil in the gas tube. Oh yea, the comment how he ran his AR for years w/o trouble somewhat dry but now its better to give it a bath in oil. No thanks.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
What because he wasn't thorough enough? He cleans them after every time he shoots them, they don't get that dirty to begin with.
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: GeorgeKaplan
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Hickock45 uses nothing but Ballistol. Case closed!
Hardly case closed. I watched a video of him cleaning an AR. All I can say is, no. Just no.
What because he wasn't thorough enough? He cleans them after every time he shoots them, they don't get that dirty to begin with.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Please put the quote on top and your reply on the bottom. You display your answer / solutions prior to the questions / earlier post. That's backwards.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
People over clean ARs. Inspection ready/white glove serves no purpose. Many people I know just add lube. Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so. They lube em up and burn em down, adding lube as needed. Get a new gun when that one won't hold groups at around 7500 rounds on their firing schedule. Me personally? I clean mine just because. Chamber brush, bore snake, wipe down and re lube the bcg and upper. But white glove? No. Noone I know does this.
That's fine for all these guys who play run and gun in their Ninja suits, packing 20 pounds of gear and Velcro. Shooting magazine after magazine at silhouette targets 7 yards away, until their barrel is hot enough to light a cigarette off of. Accuracy means nothing to them. You could supply most of those guys with smoothbore barrels, and except for the key holing they wouldn't know the difference.
But for long range varmint hunters, National Match shooters, along with all other AR-15 owners who pay top dollar for an accurate, long range rifle, that dog won't hunt. They clean their barrels religiously to maintain top accuracy at the long ranges they shoot at. Fouled bores reduce accuracy. That is a proven fact. Especially in the smaller .22 caliber rifles which are more effected by heavy metallic fouling. Hodgdon CFE-223 powder has become one of the top selling powders for reloading .223 / 5.56 MM for this very reason. These guys strive for accuracy with every shot. And they won't get it with a dirty, fouled, half burned out bore. Regardless if it's in a high dollar AR-15, or a single shot bolt action.
Are you familiar with "molon" on other boards? Well, if not, he has a kreiger barreled ar, 25x competition leupold, anometer, and shoots from an adjustable rest, gets data from a kestrel, etc.
Sometimes I out shoot him with my rifle, with the chf bore and the above method I detailed with a 4x optic off a sandbag, and sometimes he out shoots me. The difference is usually less than 1/2moa using factory ammo, although he has about 1moa up on me when you talk handloads. Now keep in mind I'm using a 4x optic and he's using a 25x. I'm using a homemade sandbag, he has an adjustable rest. Anyway, my point is...you're wrong about my methods not working. Here are two posts, one by molon, and one by me. You tell me how terrible my methods work...
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?8987-75gr-Gold-Dot-Accuracy-Evaluation
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?9240-Range-Report-Speer-LE-75-Grain-Gold-Dot
His best group was about 0.75 moa better than my worst group. And I bet dollars to doughnuts it was the 25x scope and kreiger barrel vs. My chrome lined barrel and 4x and not our cleaning methods that made it, lol!
Here I am shooting almost identical groups as molon with a different round:
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7991-Winchester-Ranger-Bonded-(RA556B)-and-Black-Hills-62gr-5-56-Evaluation
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7489-Range-Report-Winchester-RA556B
Mind you, look at the equipment disparity! So don't tell me my boresnake with a bit of clp on it isn't gonna hunt. Hunts [censored] fine, thanks.
Just because I can burn a target down at 7 yards, don't think I and my rifle can't reach out with precision and accuracy.
Originally Posted By: Ws6
People over clean ARs. Inspection ready/white glove serves no purpose. Many people I know just add lube. Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so. They lube em up and burn em down, adding lube as needed. Get a new gun when that one won't hold groups at around 7500 rounds on their firing schedule. Me personally? I clean mine just because. Chamber brush, bore snake, wipe down and re lube the bcg and upper. But white glove? No. Noone I know does this.
That's fine for all these guys who play run and gun in their Ninja suits, packing 20 pounds of gear and Velcro. Shooting magazine after magazine at silhouette targets 7 yards away, until their barrel is hot enough to light a cigarette off of. Accuracy means nothing to them. You could supply most of those guys with smoothbore barrels, and except for the key holing they wouldn't know the difference.
But for long range varmint hunters, National Match shooters, along with all other AR-15 owners who pay top dollar for an accurate, long range rifle, that dog won't hunt. They clean their barrels religiously to maintain top accuracy at the long ranges they shoot at. Fouled bores reduce accuracy. That is a proven fact. Especially in the smaller .22 caliber rifles which are more effected by heavy metallic fouling. Hodgdon CFE-223 powder has become one of the top selling powders for reloading .223 / 5.56 MM for this very reason. These guys strive for accuracy with every shot. And they won't get it with a dirty, fouled, half burned out bore. Regardless if it's in a high dollar AR-15, or a single shot bolt action.
Are you familiar with "molon" on other boards? Well, if not, he has a kreiger barreled ar, 25x competition leupold, anometer, and shoots from an adjustable rest, gets data from a kestrel, etc.
Sometimes I out shoot him with my rifle, with the chf bore and the above method I detailed with a 4x optic off a sandbag, and sometimes he out shoots me. The difference is usually less than 1/2moa using factory ammo, although he has about 1moa up on me when you talk handloads. Now keep in mind I'm using a 4x optic and he's using a 25x. I'm using a homemade sandbag, he has an adjustable rest. Anyway, my point is...you're wrong about my methods not working. Here are two posts, one by molon, and one by me. You tell me how terrible my methods work...
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?8987-75gr-Gold-Dot-Accuracy-Evaluation
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?9240-Range-Report-Speer-LE-75-Grain-Gold-Dot
His best group was about 0.75 moa better than my worst group. And I bet dollars to doughnuts it was the 25x scope and kreiger barrel vs. My chrome lined barrel and 4x and not our cleaning methods that made it, lol!
Here I am shooting almost identical groups as molon with a different round:
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7991-Winchester-Ranger-Bonded-(RA556B)-and-Black-Hills-62gr-5-56-Evaluation
http://www.weaponevolution.com/forum/showthread.php?7489-Range-Report-Winchester-RA556B
Mind you, look at the equipment disparity! So don't tell me my boresnake with a bit of clp on it isn't gonna hunt. Hunts [censored] fine, thanks.
Just because I can burn a target down at 7 yards, don't think I and my rifle can't reach out with precision and accuracy.
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Thank you. I will take your advice into consideration.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Please put the quote on top and your reply on the bottom. You display your answer / solutions prior to the questions / earlier post. That's backwards.
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Please put the quote on top and your reply on the bottom. You display your answer / solutions prior to the questions / earlier post. That's backwards.
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Just because I can burn a target down at 7 yards, don't think I and my rifle can't reach out with precision and accuracy.
I'm sorry, and don't mean to sound condescending, but 2" and 3" groups are not, "reaching out with precision and accuracy".
Just because I can burn a target down at 7 yards, don't think I and my rifle can't reach out with precision and accuracy.
I'm sorry, and don't mean to sound condescending, but 2" and 3" groups are not, "reaching out with precision and accuracy".
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Just because I can burn a target down at 7 yards, don't think I and my rifle can't reach out with precision and accuracy.
I'm sorry, and don't mean to sound condescending, but 2" and 3" groups are not, "reaching out with precision and accuracy".
It depends on what is being shot. If it's someone in the face, it's plenty. However, I shoot 1.3-1.5MOA with ammo the rifle likes on a good day(as shown in my links), which is about the "mechanical accuracy potential" of bonded duty ammo + a government profile CHF chrome lined barrel, and my point was, that cleaning habits have not harmed my ability to achieve mechanical potential of the system one bit, even using a 4x optic. I am shooting within 1 MOA or less of a guy with a 25x competition optic and a heavy Kreiger barrel. My cleaning habits MUST be doing fine.
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Just because I can burn a target down at 7 yards, don't think I and my rifle can't reach out with precision and accuracy.
I'm sorry, and don't mean to sound condescending, but 2" and 3" groups are not, "reaching out with precision and accuracy".
It depends on what is being shot. If it's someone in the face, it's plenty. However, I shoot 1.3-1.5MOA with ammo the rifle likes on a good day(as shown in my links), which is about the "mechanical accuracy potential" of bonded duty ammo + a government profile CHF chrome lined barrel, and my point was, that cleaning habits have not harmed my ability to achieve mechanical potential of the system one bit, even using a 4x optic. I am shooting within 1 MOA or less of a guy with a 25x competition optic and a heavy Kreiger barrel. My cleaning habits MUST be doing fine.
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Yes. However, their firing schedules are TOUGH and include a lot of suppressed use. 4-6 weeks is about all that a gun is good for until a rebuild is needed. The bolts typically let go at around 7k, the barrels at around 7500. Keep in mind, these guys may shoot over 100k rounds a year. They also call their shots. As in, if one pulls the trigger, unless it's a break-contact type drill where volume>anything else, they can call that shot on a 3x5 index card or so. most of them that I know shoot a lot "slower" than what you might imagine, but dirty, cold, hungry, exhausted, 120*F weather, it doesn't matter. When they pull that trigger, something is going to get a hurting.
Keep in mind they do not shoot "slow", but they "pace" movements VERY WELL. For example, they may sound like "boom boom boom boom" instead of "boomboomboomboom" on the range, but that perfect cadence that makes them sound "slow" is actually them moving the gun target-to-target very rapidly, taking the shots and moving on, where a more novice shooter may end up going "boomboom....pause...transition...pause....boomboom". Looking at total-time to engage, the NSW guy may post a 1.5 second drill, where our novice posts a 3 second drill. The NSW guy went from high/low ready to lead on target in 0.75, while the novice took 1.25, and so forth. The novice then tries to make up for inferior handling/transition by rushing the shots, and we get "boomboom" and less than stellar consistent accuracy. I don't know if this explains it very well, but I remember my first time training with guys like that, and thinking "I can shoot faster than that!". Well, the time-clock and the targets proved me wrong, lol! Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, slow is fast. Totally makes sense after being exposed to the mechanics of it. Here is an example of me shooting pistol where you note my shots are not "super fast", until you take into account that I am ALSO transitioning targets between every 2 shots on the first part of the drill, and there is no "lag" between tagging each twice, re-acquiring, and doing it again, and moving to the next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9beSeCvRMlk
This is also why many SF will roll their eyes at the ballistics crowd which says Gold dot, or TSX, or...they are putting their bullets through the pump-house, or brain and FMJ will work fine for that. They also shoot 100K a year, and simply use what they are issued. I know a lot of them have FB pages and pimp commercial gear and new products, etc. but on a "work gun", they use what is issued and proven, and I have never yet met one who did not prefer the M4 type platform in their personal life, as well, in one form or another, FWIW
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Yes. However, their firing schedules are TOUGH and include a lot of suppressed use. 4-6 weeks is about all that a gun is good for until a rebuild is needed. The bolts typically let go at around 7k, the barrels at around 7500. Keep in mind, these guys may shoot over 100k rounds a year. They also call their shots. As in, if one pulls the trigger, unless it's a break-contact type drill where volume>anything else, they can call that shot on a 3x5 index card or so. most of them that I know shoot a lot "slower" than what you might imagine, but dirty, cold, hungry, exhausted, 120*F weather, it doesn't matter. When they pull that trigger, something is going to get a hurting.
Keep in mind they do not shoot "slow", but they "pace" movements VERY WELL. For example, they may sound like "boom boom boom boom" instead of "boomboomboomboom" on the range, but that perfect cadence that makes them sound "slow" is actually them moving the gun target-to-target very rapidly, taking the shots and moving on, where a more novice shooter may end up going "boomboom....pause...transition...pause....boomboom". Looking at total-time to engage, the NSW guy may post a 1.5 second drill, where our novice posts a 3 second drill. The NSW guy went from high/low ready to lead on target in 0.75, while the novice took 1.25, and so forth. The novice then tries to make up for inferior handling/transition by rushing the shots, and we get "boomboom" and less than stellar consistent accuracy. I don't know if this explains it very well, but I remember my first time training with guys like that, and thinking "I can shoot faster than that!". Well, the time-clock and the targets proved me wrong, lol! Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, slow is fast. Totally makes sense after being exposed to the mechanics of it. Here is an example of me shooting pistol where you note my shots are not "super fast", until you take into account that I am ALSO transitioning targets between every 2 shots on the first part of the drill, and there is no "lag" between tagging each twice, re-acquiring, and doing it again, and moving to the next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9beSeCvRMlk
This is also why many SF will roll their eyes at the ballistics crowd which says Gold dot, or TSX, or...they are putting their bullets through the pump-house, or brain and FMJ will work fine for that. They also shoot 100K a year, and simply use what they are issued. I know a lot of them have FB pages and pimp commercial gear and new products, etc. but on a "work gun", they use what is issued and proven, and I have never yet met one who did not prefer the M4 type platform in their personal life, as well, in one form or another, FWIW
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Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Yes. However, their firing schedules are TOUGH and include a lot of suppressed use. 4-6 weeks is about all that a gun is good for until a rebuild is needed. The bolts typically let go at around 7k, the barrels at around 7500. Keep in mind, these guys may shoot over 100k rounds a year. They also call their shots. As in, if one pulls the trigger, unless it's a break-contact type drill where volume>anything else, they can call that shot on a 3x5 index card or so. most of them that I know shoot a lot "slower" than what you might imagine, but dirty, cold, hungry, exhausted, 120*F weather, it doesn't matter. When they pull that trigger, something is going to get a hurting.
Keep in mind they do not shoot "slow", but they "pace" movements VERY WELL. For example, they may sound like "boom boom boom boom" instead of "boomboomboomboom" on the range, but that perfect cadence that makes them sound "slow" is actually them moving the gun target-to-target very rapidly, taking the shots and moving on, where a more novice shooter may end up going "boomboom....pause...transition...pause....boomboom". Looking at total-time to engage, the NSW guy may post a 1.5 second drill, where our novice posts a 3 second drill. The NSW guy went from high/low ready to lead on target in 0.75, while the novice took 1.25, and so forth. The novice then tries to make up for inferior handling/transition by rushing the shots, and we get "boomboom" and less than stellar consistent accuracy. I don't know if this explains it very well, but I remember my first time training with guys like that, and thinking "I can shoot faster than that!". Well, the time-clock and the targets proved me wrong, lol! Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, slow is fast. Totally makes sense after being exposed to the mechanics of it. Here is an example of me shooting pistol where you note my shots are not "super fast", until you take into account that I am ALSO transitioning targets between every 2 shots on the first part of the drill, and there is no "lag" between tagging each twice, re-acquiring, and doing it again, and moving to the next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9beSeCvRMlk
This is also why many SF will roll their eyes at the ballistics crowd which says Gold dot, or TSX, or...they are putting their bullets through the pump-house, or brain and FMJ will work fine for that. They also shoot 100K a year, and simply use what they are issued. I know a lot of them have FB pages and pimp commercial gear and new products, etc. but on a "work gun", they use what is issued and proven, and I have never yet met one who did not prefer the M4 type platform in their personal life, as well, in one form or another, FWIW
You lump all NSWF into one monolithic group and regale us with tales of what "they" do for training and weapon choice as proof of your stated arguments.
How do you know so much about Navy SEALs?
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: Ws6
Rifle is cleaned when they replace the barrel. Some are NSW guys and go through a m4 every 4 weeks or so.
So your telling me that Navy Seals shoots out a barrel in 4 weeks? Love this sight, learn something new every time I log on.
Yes. However, their firing schedules are TOUGH and include a lot of suppressed use. 4-6 weeks is about all that a gun is good for until a rebuild is needed. The bolts typically let go at around 7k, the barrels at around 7500. Keep in mind, these guys may shoot over 100k rounds a year. They also call their shots. As in, if one pulls the trigger, unless it's a break-contact type drill where volume>anything else, they can call that shot on a 3x5 index card or so. most of them that I know shoot a lot "slower" than what you might imagine, but dirty, cold, hungry, exhausted, 120*F weather, it doesn't matter. When they pull that trigger, something is going to get a hurting.
Keep in mind they do not shoot "slow", but they "pace" movements VERY WELL. For example, they may sound like "boom boom boom boom" instead of "boomboomboomboom" on the range, but that perfect cadence that makes them sound "slow" is actually them moving the gun target-to-target very rapidly, taking the shots and moving on, where a more novice shooter may end up going "boomboom....pause...transition...pause....boomboom". Looking at total-time to engage, the NSW guy may post a 1.5 second drill, where our novice posts a 3 second drill. The NSW guy went from high/low ready to lead on target in 0.75, while the novice took 1.25, and so forth. The novice then tries to make up for inferior handling/transition by rushing the shots, and we get "boomboom" and less than stellar consistent accuracy. I don't know if this explains it very well, but I remember my first time training with guys like that, and thinking "I can shoot faster than that!". Well, the time-clock and the targets proved me wrong, lol! Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, slow is fast. Totally makes sense after being exposed to the mechanics of it. Here is an example of me shooting pistol where you note my shots are not "super fast", until you take into account that I am ALSO transitioning targets between every 2 shots on the first part of the drill, and there is no "lag" between tagging each twice, re-acquiring, and doing it again, and moving to the next.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9beSeCvRMlk
This is also why many SF will roll their eyes at the ballistics crowd which says Gold dot, or TSX, or...they are putting their bullets through the pump-house, or brain and FMJ will work fine for that. They also shoot 100K a year, and simply use what they are issued. I know a lot of them have FB pages and pimp commercial gear and new products, etc. but on a "work gun", they use what is issued and proven, and I have never yet met one who did not prefer the M4 type platform in their personal life, as well, in one form or another, FWIW
You lump all NSWF into one monolithic group and regale us with tales of what "they" do for training and weapon choice as proof of your stated arguments.
How do you know so much about Navy SEALs?
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