Question: What is molybdenum’s real role?

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@High Performance Lubricants sorry but I wanted to chase down several loose ends with hopefully a definitive answer; I’ll try to summarize as much as possible.

We’ve all seen and heard that moly is a friction reducer; there is plenty of documentation here already on that. One would assume that with friction reduction, there would also be wear reduction. While some of us know that UOAs are not a valid wear measurement tool, there have been same engine type/ same owner samples that may show an oil with 2x/3x/5x for example more moly, yet the entire UOA can look essentially identical otherwise. This doesn’t make sense on its surface considering the trimer/dimer moly’s have plenty of proof that they are extremely “slippery”. Thoughts?

However, many who have gone to a high moly oil (Idemitsu, Redline, HPL, or even some who add MoS2 or Lubegard BioTech) nearly all mention their engines sounding “quieter”. We know that moly is a fairly hard metal; I’ve posited (WAG, really) that moly is maybe acting as a “shock absorber” as well and this sacrificial layer is somehow quieting the engine? Or is it possible that the moly is simply filling in some of the asperities between surfaces which then improves the amount of surface area experiencing hydrodynamic lubrication?

What’s HPL’s 10,000’ view on moly since your oils obviously use quite a bit of the good stuff, and any quick anecdotes on why high moly oils don’t appear to offer any wear benefit even when analyzing single-engine trends over multiple UOAs? Thanks!!
Amazing, since what is most important is the total formulation of the oil. Lubeguard Biotech is an additive. I have not read the OP's threads so I do not know if he has used HPLs oils. It is crazy for us to look into what an oil manufacture is putting in there oils when we go to McDonalds and eat there food without looking about what ingredients are in the food.
 
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Lubeguard Biotech is an additive.
Lubegard Bio-Tech is a mild top-treatment for motor oil.

It is crazy for us to look into what an oil manufacture is putting in there oils when we go to McDonalds and eat there food without looking about what ingredients are in the food.
Without ever wondering why you get the McBurple, McPhart, and McBelly.
 
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Lubegard Bio-Tech is a mild top-treatment for motor oil.


Without ever wondering why you get the McBurple, McPhart, and McBelly.

We go and buy motor oil and use it, then this board gets a sponsor with a really good oil, and certain people question it. But anyone who uses a cheaper oil or what they are using does not question that oil. The most expensive oils get questioned but the cheaper ones do not.
 
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We go and buy motor oil and use it, then this board gets a sponsor with a really good oil, and certain people question it. But anyone who uses a cheaper oil or what they are using does not question that oil. The most expensive oils get questioned but the cheaper ones do not.
I'm not sure how what you just said has anything to do with what I said.
 
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A possible testament to the synergistic effects of ZDDP and MoDTC in an extreme environment is an accident that occurred at a NHRA race.

Earlier this year, a professional motorcycle race team ran an engine with no oil. It previously had oil and was drained prior to shipping to the event. At the event, they didn't realize it had been drained. They thought it still had oil in the engine.

Specs on this engine...

Displacement = 1850 cc (113 ci) 4 cylinder
Compression = 16:1
Camshaft = 265-275° @ .050", .630-.700" lift, >500 lbs open spring pressure
Fuel = Sunoco SR18
Power = ~370 HP @ 13,600 RPM, ~160 TQ @ 10,000 RPM

It's no slouch. The engine was started up and run 6 times in the pits. It then made 2 burnouts and 2 1/4-mile passes, all with no oil in the engine. Just riding on residual oil film and AW/FM additive tribofilms. It finally seized after the 2nd pass. BTW, that second pass was a 6.96 @ 191 mph... with no oil in the engine.

The oil that was in the engine was from @High Performance Lubricants. We know their race oils contain a very high amount of moly.

One must ponder... how much contribution did the ZDDP and MoDTC synergy have in that engine lasting as long as it did?
 
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@Brian123 see @RDY4WAR's post. I am a @High Performance Lubricants customer and I don't question their products. I enjoy their transparency and I so enjoy the occasional conversation with Mr. David Ward. I get to learn a lot from him and on this forum. HPL is BITOG's. It's what this forum always asked for. Enjoy it, now that it's finally here.
 

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We go and buy motor oil and use it, then this board gets a sponsor with a really good oil, and certain people question it. But anyone who uses a cheaper oil or what they are using does not question that oil. The most expensive oils get questioned but the cheaper ones do not.
Nobody is questioning HPL....folks on this board more or less are driving average vehicles in an average way and really have on reason to spend the money on a top-shelf product like HPL and can happily run ST or whatever brand oil changed a few times a year and drive the vehicle "forever". For those that want the best for a newer/high $$$ vehicle or push their vehicles hard, well...there it is....I use HPL oils in my performance car and it's great stuff, look at the pedigree of who they supply lubricants too....
 

ZeeOSix

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I mean, ultimately, tear-down testing is the proper mechanism to be used here ;)
Or the high tech method of radiating different parts of the engine and measuring wear in real time.

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1669675309970.jpg
 

SubieRubyRoo

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Amazing, since what is most important is the total formulation of the oil. Lubeguard Biotech is an additive. I have not read the OP's threads so I do not know if he has used HPLs oils. It is crazy for us to look into what an oil manufacture is putting in there oils when we go to McDonalds and eat there food without looking about what ingredients are in the food.
A burger is a $3 commodity and one can find them anywhere; a 3.5 EcoBoost is a $12-15k rebuild if something goes awry because of a $50 oil change?
 

SubieRubyRoo

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We go and buy motor oil and use it, then this board gets a sponsor with a really good oil, and certain people question it. But anyone who uses a cheaper oil or what they are using does not question that oil. The most expensive oils get questioned but the cheaper ones do not.
Where did you see that at all? My question is HOW does moly work, and can the average Joe ever see what good moly ever does for their engine? And BTW, yes, I am using HPL.
 

SubieRubyRoo

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Nobody is questioning HPL....folks on this board more or less are driving average vehicles in an average way and really have on reason to spend the money on a top-shelf product like HPL and can happily run ST or whatever brand oil changed a few times a year and drive the vehicle "forever". For those that want the best for a newer/high $$$ vehicle or push their vehicles hard, well...there it is....I use HPL oils in my performance car and it's great stuff, look at the pedigree of who they supply lubricants too....
My 3.5EB is currently tuned up to about 510rwhp with more parts coming, so no, I don’t believe I’ll be trusting it to SuperTech oil anytime soon. I am already out of warranty coverage, and so to me if my oil changes cost double what a shelf oil does but has a good chance of doubling or tripling my engine life at nearly double the crankshaft output of stock, then it’s a mere pittance in the big picture.
 
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My 3.5EB is currently tuned up to about 510rwhp with more parts coming, so no, I don’t believe I’ll be trusting it to SuperTech oil anytime soon. I am already out of warranty coverage, and so to me if my oil changes cost double what a shelf oil does but has a good chance of doubling or tripling my engine life at nearly double the crankshaft output of stock, then it’s a mere pittance in the big picture.
What are you running in it now?
 

SubieRubyRoo

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What are you running in it now?
HPL PCMO 5w30. I discussed at length with @High Performance Lubricants and they feel it should still be fine in my app. I’ll be doing periodic UOAs to see how far it takes me. I’ve already ordered my next OCI.

A quick and dirty hand calculation shows the HPL 5w30 is up about 0.3mpg over 2500 miles vs Penn Euro 0w40. Will see if that holds!
 
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HPL PCMO 5w30. I discussed at length with @High Performance Lubricants and they feel it should still be fine in my app. I’ll be doing periodic UOAs to see how far it takes me. I’ve already ordered my next OCI.

A quick and dirty hand calculation shows the HPL 5w30 is up about 0.3mpg over 2500 miles vs Penn Euro 0w40. Will see if that holds!
Is this a dual injection EcoBoost?
 

SubieRubyRoo

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Cool. I was about to say that if it's a T-GDI ten go with 5W-40. PCMO 5W-40 would still be an excellent choice, especially if you're towing or cranking out high horsepower.
Like I said, I discussed pretty in-depth with David including current and future mods, and he’s confident the PCMO 5w30 is up to the task. We’ll see, and if it holds like David thinks it does, it may just change a few minds on this site with real data! 👍🏻
 
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Like I said, I discussed pretty in-depth with David including current and future mods, and he’s confident the PCMO 5w30 is up to the task. We’ll see, and if it holds like David thinks it does, it may just change a few minds on this site with real data! 👍🏻
I got 4 gallons of HPL Premium Plus PCMO and I'm confident it will end up in my Durango or my wife's Jeep. It's probably overkill for a Pentastar V6, but I like @OVERKILL :cool:
 

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Like I said, I discussed pretty in-depth with David including current and future mods, and he’s confident the PCMO 5w30 is up to the task. We’ll see, and if it holds like David thinks it does, it may just change a few minds on this site with real data! 👍🏻
I have zero doubt that oil will work great in your Sooob.
 
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