Question regarding traffic, red lights.

[Walmill]

Hello gents. Question that I've wondered for the many years I've lived here and I've never obtained a good response. I understand the arguments for both.

I've attached an illustration for better understanding.


Basically, when coming off of the highway we come to a red light. You can either go left (which is straight) or you can go right. Both directions have dedicated lights. The light to go left is a red circle when red, and a green arrow when green. The light to go right is a red circle when red and a green circle when green. There is no signage indicating whether "turning" right on red is permitted or not, nothing indicating yield. The reason I say "turn" is because it doesn't seem to be necessarily a "turn" since you are pretty much just driving into the lane of traffic. (Making a right turn on a red light is generally permitted (after coming to a stop) unless otherwise indicated in this jurisdiction)
My issue, and I've done it as well. Is that most people "go" right when the light is red. But like I said it doesn't feel like a "turn".
If the red light to turn isn't meant as a red light, why wouldn't it be made a flashing yellow or replaced with a stop and yield sign? I've seen other people stay stopped at the light while everyone behind is honking.
Who could I turn to for a definite answer?

 

[exranger06]

If there were a flashing red light or a stop sign, people would always have to come to a complete stop. By having the solid red light/green light, they only have to stop when the light is red. When the light is green, they can go right through without stopping.

And your drawing is showing a one-way road, so not sure how anyone can make a left turn there.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Walmill
Hello gents. Question that I've wondered for the many years I've lived here and I've never obtained a good response. I understand the arguments for both.

I've attached an illustration for better understanding.


Basically, when coming off of the highway we come to a red light. You can either go left (which is straight) or you can go right. Both directions have dedicated lights. The light to go left is a red circle when red, and a green arrow when green. The light to go right is a red circle when red and a green circle when green. There is no signage indicating whether "turning" right on red is permitted or not, nothing indicating yield. The reason I say "turn" is because it doesn't seem to be necessarily a "turn" since you are pretty much just driving into the lane of traffic. (Making a right turn on a red light is generally permitted (after coming to a stop) unless otherwise indicated in this jurisdiction)
My issue, and I've done it as well. Is that most people "go" right when the light is red. But like I said it doesn't feel like a "turn".
If the red light to turn isn't meant as a red light, why wouldn't it be made a flashing yellow or replaced with a stop and yield sign? I've seen other people stay stopped at the light while everyone behind is honking.
Who could I turn to for a definite answer?
Your local PD. It looks like a "veer" right, which means a right on red MIGHT not be permitted, but having no signs means it might be OK. Definitely should stop & look first!

 

[Pike51]

The light is red to ensure a stop. If there is no signage, then it is okay to turn right on red if traffic permits.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Pike51
The light is red to ensure a stop. If there is no signage, then it is okay to turn right on red if traffic permits.
Maybe-believe it or not, my brother got a ticket for doing that exact turn-the PD said it was a "veer" turn. I would have taken it to court! This was back in the day, it's almost impossible to get Little DetroitCincinnati PD to do any traffic enforcement now!

 

[Hall]

There's a traffic light so it's pretty clear vehicles have to stop if the light is red. If they didn't have to stop, there would be a "Yield" sign, continuous green light or green arrow, etc.

Regarding a right-turn-on-red, I can't speak for Florida laws, only Ohio, and if there's NO sign saying you CAN'T, then you're allowed to turn right on red. Based on your diagram, I am 99% confident that a right-turn-on-red would NOT be allowed at this intersection (in Ohio). Reason is is that your view to the left is blocked.

 

[SZR48207]

I once took a right turn on red from the lanes marked "left turn" in the illustration.

It haunts me to this day.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: hallstevenson
...
Regarding a right-turn-on-red, I can't speak for Florida laws, only Ohio, and if there's NO sign saying you CAN'T, then you're allowed to turn right on red. Based on your diagram, I am 99% confident that a right-turn-on-red would NOT be allowed at this intersection (in Ohio). Reason is is that your view to the left is blocked.

Just a small observation:
the right-most lane has a "ramp", so after stopping and looking, they could go on the "ramp" and still check their mirrors/over their shoulder for zip-in-traffic or proceed when safe/opening available.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I once took a right turn on red from the lanes marked "left turn" in the illustration.

It haunts me to this day.

ever seen a semi do that?
(common occurrence when my on ramp is blocked by traffic backed up for miles by an accident on local streets)

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

I don't see a problem. Red light, whether it's flashing or solid means STOP. Just think how this intersection arrangement would affect Eastern Bloc drivers. For the Eastern Bloc drivers, three stupid things to do behind the wheel seem to be, make a U turn anywhere you want, increase speed proportionately to increasing congestion and use only one stud nut when replacing a wheel.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
I once took a right turn on red from the lanes marked "left turn" in the illustration.

It haunts me to this day.

ever seen a semi do that?
(common occurrence when my on ramp is blocked by traffic backed up for miles by an accident on local streets)

I just remember a good one:
when i had my short-lived Chrysler Concorde, we used it for my SIL for driver-exam practice.
She took a similar intersection left-turn, into..... opposite traffic + jump a really large curb.
luckily there was no opposite traffic.
Morale of the story: don't let a beginner panicky driver drive at night in unfamiliar roads....

 

[Quattro Pete]

Red light means 'stop'. It's as simple as that.

If turn on red is not prohibited, then you can proceed after the stop.

 

[mightymousetech]

There is a red light. You must stop first.

 

[Kira]

I would guess the light on the "veer" section of road (the fork to the right in your illustration) is to be treated as any other. That'd mean right-on-red where it's legal to do so.
I think the fork to the right is to be treated as a road WITHOUT REGARD TO HOW SHORT THE ROAD IS. Again, I gotta say I don't know.

There's such a fork to the right in my little town. No highway is involved. I've never heard the word "veer road" (or whatever) used in my life.

In the case of the one in my town there's a sign which reads "After stop-turn on red permitted". This tells me there is some confusion with this particular configuration.

To the OP: Happy searching. Ain't it interesting to meet and talk to all the people (sometimes big shots) who don't know what is going on?

 

[Quattro Pete]

OP, if you don't mind us asking, what is the location (street names)?

 

[Walmill]

Few clarifications:
The main road is a divided road. The --> (east) direction is the only one I included as the west
I am aware of having to stop before turning on red and isn't what I'm asking about. Whether people actually do that or not is an entirely diffent issue.

The third (bottom most) lane going east actually ends up into a right turn lane about 200ft down the road, further adding to the issue as those people are then trying to merge into the traffic.

I just noticed my drawing isn't 100% accurate. There are three travel lanes, not two. Also, there is only one left turn lane, not two.

I just think that after years of this intersection existing, and people waiting at red and going at red, the county should install a sign to clear the confusion. (right turn permitted on red after stop, no right turn on red)

 

[Rhymingmechanic]

There's a similar intersection in my area, except the rightmost lane doesn't feed into a turn lane--it's just two lanes feeding two lanes. Also, the stoplights are the usual, not the red donuts you're describing.

Here, the right turn lanes have "No Turn on Red" signs. I think you're correct about the need for signs.

 

[bullwinkle]

A lot of similar off-ramps in these parts have that configuration, usually there's a "No Turn On Red Except Curb Lane" sign to prevent the inner right turn lane from turning on red. Like I said before, it might be a good idea to ask a local officer what he thinks-I don't know how hard FL is on traffic enforcement-around Cincy it would be hard enough just to find a cop, period. Unless there's news media present!

 

[mk378]

Around here the far right lane wouldn't have a light at all. Though that could be to reduce the stress on traffic from the straight road that needs to merge into that lane to take the next right. And the morons who got in that lane though they want to go straight.

 

[raytseng]

By the time you are at the light it is difficult to determine if the average person considers it a distinct road or a turn if there is no other signage.

The reason why not a stop is because when green they want free flow and people not to stop.

So there are 2 issues that are distinct.

one: will an officer issue a ticket to ypu? yes they can and might as its such a grey area. they can always wtite it up as unsafe turn.

two: will you be able to argue and win your case in court ? most likely yes you can probably win the case.