Question about vw511.00 5w40

[930.engineering]

Patrizio, I'm sad to notice some adivice you got in this discussion is surprisingly poor.
I'm aware most won't appreciate to hear this. I hope you can answer some questions.

i have audi RS3 and they suggest 0w30, with 504 507 spec
can i use 5w40 like Bardal that is 511?
i run on Stage2,opf delete, and would like more protection
thanks

Firstly, why deviate from VW 504 00? It's 504 00 for your RS3, as VW 507 00 is for Diesel engines.
Since your RS3 seems to be quite young (it came with an OPF), is ist still under warranty?
Why didn't you read and use existing threads? If you'd read this, you already see that no single
Bardahl is VW 511 00 aproved:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...0-504-00-508-00-511-00-approval-lists.344127/

https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/downloadStaticFile/volkswagen/files/oil/step_51100.pdf

This list is so short, I'd even know from memory if a Bardahl would appear on it.

Shouldn't hurt, the only major difference between 504/507 and 511, is that 511 is nominally 40 grade,

It'd hurt significantly if approval is still of importance (which seems to be the case since the OP
obviously thought it comes with the approval).

my only dubt is a cold start and in daily use for the major viscosity
so for go w40 or old 502 505 or New 511

Why is cold start a concern? Using an perhaps outdated VW 502 00 oil would be my actual
concern. In this RS3 I'd use either VW 504 00 or (after warranty) VW 511 00 or Ravenol REP.

If you can get your hands on it, Driven DI40 0W-40 maybe a good choice, it's a Porsche C40 oil, which is Porsche's closest equivalent to 511.

Any source it has a real Porsche approval? You'll understand I'm sceptical.

I believe the VW 511.00 norm specifies a viscosity grade of 0W40 and low to mid SAPS. The VW product and the Mobil 1 ESP X3 product have a smoking high viscosity index of 204 which makes this a very stable product.

Huge VI commonly equates to huge amounts of VII which is the opposite of "stable".

Firstly, I would verify that the Bardahl product that you say meets VW 511.00 norm actually does meet this norm.

By far your best advice here.

If you're no longer worried about warranty and have no exhaust particulate filters in place then maybe consider a full SAPS 502.00 product or better yet, an MB 229.5 in a 5W40 grade.

Why? If you're recommending to deviate from VW 504 00 you're inevitably saying
it's inappropriate. Why is it inappropriate? Without being inappropriate there's no
reason to deviate from VW 504 00.

Here Bardhal 5W40 511

Bardahl says "Performance Level", not "approval", so it lacks the approval. "Performance Level"
is just a marketing term, nothing you can rely on.

I’m just confuse, i bought this oil and if not sure i can use in summer, in Italy we can go easy from 30 to 40 degree.

Again, why? Any VW 504 00 will easily deal with +40°C wheather. If you're concerned
about your engine, why did you tune it? I'm aware this is another unpopular question.

I would think that you could use the Bardahl product without any concerns. I do not know precisely which product you speak of but if it's this one then it'd be perfectly fine in your application.

It is not appropriate. It's an average group 3 product without ANY real approvals.
The OP linked the product and so I'd assume that's the one he's talking about.

highly doubt itll cause issues so go ahead and use it.

Also where did you find bardahl since i only see that in mexico.

So you say he could use ANY oil, even the poorest?

The OP is in Italy, I believe it's quite common in Europe, they're the sponsor of that one crazy Russian channel Garage 54.

Not common in Europe, quite exotic/boutiquish. Perhaps more popular in Italy
as I remember another Italian asking for Bardahl gear oil this year.

RAVENOL RUP Racing Ultra Performance SAE 5W-40

Seriously, by far the best advice so far. RUP and REP are what I'd use in an RS3
after warranty. M1 ESP 5W-30 or Ravenol VMP with VW 504 00 during warranty.

That oil will be perfectly acceptable to use in your Audi in the Italian climate.

Please stop this, dude. If you don't know the car and the oil including its approvals
you should think twice before giving any advice.
.

 

[UG_Passat]

Hello,
i have audi RS3 and they suggest 0w30, with 504 507 spec
can i use 5w40 like Bardal that is 511?
i run on Stage2,opf delete, and would like more protection
thanks

Usually, the point of deleting a OPF, then chose an oil that has higher SAPS, not less.

 

[Patrizio73]

Firstly, why deviate from VW 504 00? It's 504 00 for your RS3, as VW 507 00 is for Diesel engines.
Since your RS3 seems to be quite young (it came with an OPF), is ist still under warranty?
Why didn't you read and use existing threads? If you'd read this, you already see that no single
Bardahl is VW 511 00 aproved:

Because going stage2 i loose warranty ofcourse, and i would like more protection to the engine due to more power and more temperature, and i have thinked 5W40 XFS Bardahl( in Italy si a very good brand) is a good choose, and i saw after wrote this post was not in approval vw list.
Thanks for all the answer you give, now i understand better

 

[FowVay]

Because we now have a Volkswagen materials lab member on the forum I will simply state what appears to be taking place. The VW 504 norm was implemented to address three situations: a) intake valve deposits b) particulate filter longevity c) fuel efficiency. Because your vehicle no longer is covered under warranty due to the removal of the particulate filter, this is one aspect that is no longer a concern. As for intake valve deposits, the 504 norm has actually done nothing to improve upon this issue. Volkswagen is addressing this issue in other manners and hopefully your vehicle is an improvement upon previous designs. And as for fuel efficiency... well, you bought and RS3 which is one of the most fascinating and class leading performance vehicles. I doubt the efficiency of the engine was your motivation.

The 511 norm took the 504 standards, increased the viscosity limits and was applicable to the high performance and larger displacements in the VAG stable. I feel that in your application the 511 would be a better choice over the lower viscosity 504 now that warranty concerns are removed and corporate compliance with governmental standards are not your concern.

Enjoy your wonderful RS3 and Bardahl oil!

 

[Patrizio73]

Because we now have a Volkswagen materials lab member on the forum I will simply state what appears to be taking place. The VW 504 norm was implemented to address three situations: a) intake valve deposits b) particulate filter longevity c) fuel efficiency. Because your vehicle no longer is covered under warranty due to the removal of the particulate filter, this is one aspect that is no longer a concern. As for intake valve deposits, the 504 norm has actually done nothing to improve upon this issue. Volkswagen is addressing this issue in other manners and hopefully your vehicle is an improvement upon previous designs. And as for fuel efficiency... well, you bought and RS3 which is one of the most fascinating and class leading performance vehicles. I doubt the efficiency of the engine was your motivation.

The 511 norm took the 504 standards, increased the viscosity limits and was applicable to the high performance and larger displacements in the VAG stable. I feel that in your application the 511 would be a better choice over the lower viscosity 504 now that warranty concerns are removed and corporate compliance with governmental standards are not your concern.

Enjoy your wonderful RS3 and Bardahl oil!

Look honey for my ears
thank you!

 

[kschachn]

Because going stage2 i loose warranty ofcourse, and i would like more protection to the engine due to more power and more temperature, and i have thinked 5W40 XFS Bardahl( in Italy si a very good brand) is a good choose, and i saw after wrote this post was not in approval vw list.

If you're really worried about a warranty violation by not using a 504 00 oil I'd think you should be even more worried about using an oil that doesn't have any VW approval at all.

 

[Patrizio73]

If you're really worried about a warranty violation by not using a 504 00 oil I'd think you should be even more worried about using an oil that doesn't have any VW approval at all.

i’m not worried about warranty violation about oil, i’m just worried about put inside engine a good oil to protect it.
if vw511 oil is better then 504 oil is that i would like to know.
just read my first post

 

[edyvw]

Because we now have a Volkswagen materials lab member on the forum I will simply state what appears to be taking place. The VW 504 norm was implemented to address three situations: a) intake valve deposits b) particulate filter longevity c) fuel efficiency. Because your vehicle no longer is covered under warranty due to the removal of the particulate filter, this is one aspect that is no longer a concern. As for intake valve deposits, the 504 norm has actually done nothing to improve upon this issue. Volkswagen is addressing this issue in other manners and hopefully your vehicle is an improvement upon previous designs. And as for fuel efficiency... well, you bought and RS3 which is one of the most fascinating and class leading performance vehicles. I doubt the efficiency of the engine was your motivation.

The 511 norm took the 504 standards, increased the viscosity limits and was applicable to the high performance and larger displacements in the VAG stable. I feel that in your application the 511 would be a better choice over the lower viscosity 504 now that warranty concerns are removed and corporate compliance with governmental standards are not your concern.

Enjoy your wonderful RS3 and Bardahl oil!

In Lubrizol study VW502.00 left 167% more IVD than VW504.00/507.00. Been discussed numerous times here, there is link to study in those topics.

 

[TiGeo]

A tuned/deleted big-power Audi - I'd say a 511 oil would be just fine as a "heavier 504 type oil" for lack of technical jargon. Approvals aren't going to mean much at this point w/r to warranty concerns for the OP so the arguing about it is moot. With that said, I'm sure many folks running tuned RS3s are running the 504 oils with no drama. I want to swap in one of those 5 cylinders into my wagon bad....there have been a few that have done it...that motor is so choice....

 

[FowVay]

In Lubrizol study VW502.00 left 167% more IVD than VW504.00/507.00. Been discussed numerous times here, there is link to study in those topics.

Yes, I agree. The original topic was regarding the use of a 511 00 oil in an engine specifying 504 00. Nothing more. I stand by my suggestion that the 511 00 oil that the OP has in his possession is of no problem to be used in his RS3.

 

[edyvw]

Yes, I agree. The original topic was regarding the use of a 511 00 oil in an engine specifying 504 00. Nothing more. I stand by my suggestion that the 511 00 oil that the OP has in his possession is of no problem to be used in his RS3.

Not a problem at all. Also, so far all VW511.00 oils that ARE approved have approvals from Porsche for C40 which has same track requirements as A40.

 

[930.engineering]

Because going stage2 i loose warranty ofcourse, and i would like more protection to the engine due to more power and more temperature, and i have thinked 5W40 XFS Bardahl( in Italy si a very good brand) is a good choose, and i saw after wrote this post was not in approval vw list.
Thanks for all the answer you give, now i understand better

Is temperature (oil? coolant?) actually a concern? Temp doesn't necessarily rise with more power. This engine has a map controlled thermostat (making it run hotter at low load cruising) and a proper tune should address that (lowering coolant temp and thus oil temp). If that isn't sufficient alter your coolant ratio to 40 % G13 and 60 % destilled water. Water has better thermal capacity compared to glycol. There's a recent thread about and I posted some Audi customer racing data.
I doubt it's necessary. How long will you be able to accelerate full throttle? Four seconds, five seconds? After that you're risking jail in Italy. Italy also isn't THAT hot. It's mildly warm and not that of a tough environment as some spots in the US are (elevation and heat).

i’m not worried about warranty violation about oil, i’m just worried about put inside engine a good oil to protect it.
if vw511 oil is better then 504 oil is that i would like to know.
just read my first post

You already know it. VW 504 00 are great oils and VW 511 00 may perform even better under elevated temperatures. Ravenol RUP comes with true VW 511 00 and Porsche C40 approvals. Lowest Noack you can find among any VW 511 00 and solid HTHS of 3,9 mPas. DI friendly, approvals you can rely on. Hard to find anything better for a tuned RS3. MUCH better compared to that Bardahl in question and I'd even go that far to say any VW 504 00 approved oil will perform better, any VW 511 00 should anyway.

In Lubrizol study VW502.00 left 167% more IVD than VW504.00/507.00. Been discussed numerous times here, there is link to study in those topics.

I haven't read that discussion yet, but it's not surprising at all. I'm a long-time 504 00 (over 502 00) promotor.

If you're really worried about a warranty violation by not using a 504 00 oil I'd think you should be even more worried about using an oil that doesn't have any VW approval at all.

That's what I was saying.

Because we now have a Volkswagen materials lab member on the forum

Well, I'm able to read data sheets and approvals. You better ask yourself why is that out of your depth?

I will simply state what appears to be taking place.

I'm excitedly awaiting....

The VW 504 norm was implemented to address three situations: a) intake valve deposits b) particulate filter longevity c) fuel efficiency.

Didn't you miss something? VW 504 00 is known to have one of the strictest requirements for wear protection and piston cleanliness in the industry among many more requirements. Isn't that of any importance for a DI Turbo RS3? You think Patrizio needs "something better" and you still say he should run that mediocre Bardahl? Don't you notice you're writing just a bunch of nonsense?

Because your vehicle no longer is covered under warranty due to the removal of the particulate filter, this is one aspect that is no longer a concern. As for intake valve deposits, the 504 norm has actually done nothing to improve upon this issue.

Another nonsense. Read the threads edyvw refered to. Many if not most IVD issues have happened on (older) TSI/TFSI engines (EA113 and first gen EA888) run with VW 502 00 and perhaps an aftermarked tune.

And as for fuel efficiency... well, you bought and RS3 which is one of the most fascinating and class leading performance vehicles. I doubt the efficiency of the engine was your motivation.

Efficiency does't only mean fuel consumption. It's also about power. Thick oil equates to increased drag. Actually viscosity IS drag (a liquid's resistance to flow).

The 511 norm took the 504 standards, increased the viscosity limits and was applicable to the high performance and larger displacements in the VAG stable. I feel that in your application the 511 would be a better choice over the lower viscosity 504 now that warranty concerns are removed and corporate compliance with governmental standards are not your concern.

I agree on VW 511 00 being likely ideal. However even with a tune I wouldn't be completely pessimistic about warranty. In some cases they may keep the warranty, at least there's still some chance and everything the OP does to not further affect it might be helpful. Doing oil changes at the dealer with approved oil is one example to keep a good relationship to his dealer. Keep in mind the car doesn't comprise an engine only.

Enjoy your wonderful RS3 and Bardahl oil!

I would literally lose my sleep if I had that oil in any of my engines. If you still think it's a good oil I'd suggest you buy it from Patrizio as quick as possible!

Yes, I agree.

If so, why did you claim exactly the opposite?

The original topic was regarding the use of a 511 00 oil in an engine specifying 504 00. Nothing more.

His question was: "can i use 5w40 like Bardal that is 511?"
As Patrizio mentioned VW 511 00 and what oil he's going to use it's been mandatory to say that it doesn't have an approval (it doesn't have ANY approval at all). Wait, is this to detract from the nonsense you said?

I stand by my suggestion that the 511 00 oil that the OP has in his possession is of no problem to be used in his RS3.

Again, this Bardahl does not come with a VW 511 00 approval, so it isn't a "511 00 oil".
Actually there's no single Bardahl branded existing with a VW 511 00 approval at all.

Seriously, what's so hard to get that?
.

 

[Patrizio73]

Today i talk with a friend with Audi TTS in warranty ( oil 504 - 507),him ask to audi service to put oil 0w40 and want stay in warranty and Audi put this oil 511 at 38€L

 

[Patrizio73]

Is temperature (oil? coolant?) actually a concern? Temp doesn't necessarily rise with more power. This engine has a map controlled thermostat (making it run hotter at low load cruising) and a proper tune should address that (lowering coolant temp and thus oil temp). If that isn't sufficient alter your coolant ratio to 40 % G13 and 60 % destilled water. Water has better thermal capacity compared to glycol. There's a recent thread about and I posted some Audi customer racing data.
I doubt it's necessary. How long will you be able to accelerate full throttle? Four seconds, five seconds? After that you're risking jail in Italy. Italy also isn't THAT hot. It's mildly warm and not that of a tough environment as some spots in the US are (elevation and heat).

i’m not an expert ,but when a car go to Stage2 tune, first things they change downpipe with a sport catalist for take down temperature near turbine, take a big intercooler for more fresh air, a more big air intake ecc.
with 100hp more all temperature go up, in summer oil go to 120 degree and more.
if there is not a specific reasons to put 0w30 , maybe go to 0w40 , 5w40 is not a bad idea.
About Bardhal that is not 511 approval i want call them and ask about this, next change oil i can go in approved one.

 

[930.engineering]

Audi Special Performance 0W-40 is Mobil1 ESP x3 0W-40. Same with VW High
Performance 0W-40.
Both are the only 0W-40/VW 511 00 currently available. All the rest are 5W-40
if that matters.
I'm aware of what's common with a tune. I just doubt it's that of an issue for the
oil, though I'm still with you VW 511 00 is a good idea. I mentioned the same
several times on this forum. In spite of that I'm not gonna use it in my GTI unless
VW officially says VW 511 00 is an appropriate substistute for engines intended
to run VW 502 00 and 504 00 which I don't see happen.
Feel free to call Bardahl, but I don't get your reasoning for that. There's no approval
and no phone call will change that. Approved oils are on VW's 511 00 list and the
link I posted is the present one. Actually it's always latest as it's directly linked to
VW's own ETKA server. It's official. It's dependable. So what's still to question?
Again, I wouldn't run that Bardahl in this kind of car, it's most likely inappropriate.
You're playing Russian roulette, but it's your car and your money.

 

[edyvw]

Audi Special Performance 0W-40 is Mobil1 ESP x3 0W-40. Same with VW High
Performance 0W-40.
Both are the only 0W-40/VW 511 00 currently available. All the rest are 5W-40
if that matters.
I'm aware of what's common with a tune. I just doubt it's that of an issue for the
oil, though I'm still with you VW 511 00 is a good idea. I mentioned the same
several times on this forum. In spite of that I'm not gonna use it in my GTI unless
VW officially says VW 511 00 is an appropriate substistute for engines intended
to run VW 502 00 and 504 00 which I don't see happen.
Feel free to call Bardahl, but I don't get your reasoning for that. There's no approval
and no phone call will change that. Approved oils are on VW's 511 00 list and the
link I posted is the present one. Actually it's always latest as it's directly linked to
VW's own ETKA server. It's official. It's dependable. So what's still to question?
Again, I wouldn't run that Bardahl in this kind of car, it's most likely inappropriate.
You're playing Russian roulette, but it's your car and your money.

But, maybe they give him desperately sought confirmation bias.

 

[Audiman]

I would be more concerned about the bevel box and rear differential having failures than what non approved engine oil you want to run. I see issues with these on standard cars so stage 2 is going to punish them.

It does make me wonder though when people have these expensive cars then tune them so void the factory warranty that actually covers up to 5 years 100,000 miles on engine and trans components.

If you want to run 511 do so but buy an oil that IS 511.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

I would be more concerned about the bevel box and rear differential having failures than what non approved engine oil you want to run. I see issues with these on standard cars so stage 2 is going to punish them.

It does make me wonder though when people have these expensive cars then tune them so void the factory warranty that actually covers up to 5 years 100,000 miles on engine and trans components.

If you want to run 511 do so but buy an oil that IS 511.

Really? I spend a lot of time on the forums and I don't remember a bevel box breaking. A few E85 tuned cars have broken rear diffs if they are launched a lot. One even broke one of the mounting ears off the housing. I do agree with you about throwing away the factory warranty in seconds though, stupid.

In terms of oil, I don't see the big difference between 504 and 511, maybe .2 HTHS or so, not really enough to matter on the street. On heavy track use 511 might be a better choice but pretty minimal change, and there are better choices for that type of use.

 

[Audiman]

Really? I spend a lot of time on the forums and I don't remember a bevel box breaking. A few E85 tuned cars have broken rear diffs if they are launched a lot. One even broke one of the mounting ears off the housing. I do agree with you about throwing away the factory warranty in seconds though, stupid.

In terms of oil, I don't see the big difference between 504 and 511, maybe .2 HTHS or so, not really enough to matter on the street. On heavy track use 511 might be a better choice but pretty minimal change, and there are better choices for that type of use.

Yes really, I’ve seen it in person numerous times.

 

[TiGeo]

I would be more concerned about the bevel box and rear differential having failures than what non approved engine oil you want to run. I see issues with these on standard cars so stage 2 is going to punish them.

It does make me wonder though when people have these expensive cars then tune them so void the factory warranty that actually covers up to 5 years 100,000 miles on engine and trans components.

If you want to run 511 do so but buy an oil that IS 511.

I haven't see much/read much about any failures on the MQB VAG cars with huge power with bevel box/rear ends...basically bulletproof. On the warranty - some folks just want to enjoy things and take the finanical risk...I get it....I did it on my Sportwagen but of course that's a $20K car, not a $60K car.