Quantum Blue - SRT8 - UOA question

[jhellwig]

That thread is chock full of dumb. I really like the undetectable fuel dilution.

Spend bunch of money on bold on junk and plug in tuners And pours in oil with an Avery stick on label that someone printed up on their $99 Walmart special inkjet printer. Car tells him something is wrong due to bolt on junk and plug in tuner. Owner doesn’t have money or time to fix it due to buying more bolt on junk and special oil. Door to door salesman defends his product with big words. Everyone thinks that the color of the crankcase is a good measure of oil quality. Fingers are pointed. Lather, rinse and repeat.

 

[edyvw]

The QB guy may be smart and super to deal with, but those responses and the website offer a different picture.

Hard to believe the Charger owner went back with QB. Must be some strong kool aid.

Not hard at all.

 

[edyvw]

Web site is a gem.

 

[Skippy722]

This is up there with the “gotta run copper plugs or you’ll grenade your hemi!” people.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Part of the reason for this thread is to discuss whether a Blackstone UOA provides enough information to validate engine oil drain intervals. Based on the limited information posted, it would appear that the oil had adequate TBN remaining so one would assume that the oil was still keeping the engine's parts clean. Clearly, that was far from the case here. I think we are trying to understand what went wrong and what a UOA does not tell us in regards to an oil's continued serviceability.

If @dnewton3 or @MolaKule can add their thoughts on this matter, I think the feedback can be valuable.

TBN is an effective measure of an oil's ability to resist oxidation by acids by its alkaline. In cases where that's not the prime mover of the failure, it doesn't help much.

First, as others have said, I don't think much of this oil to begin with and since its exact properties are unknown as are the history of the OA, my assessment is speculative based on a visual ( and worth exactly that).

I have seen this in a lot of industrial equipment and some hydraulics- it may apply here too

It appears that the culprit could be simple thermal decomposition ( air induced or just a property of the oil) which sticks in thin layers, cokes and gets harder and thicker over time.

I have seen this where a small amount sticks to the metal then agglomerates over time and cooks harder as time goes by.

In many cases the effect is so localized and quick that it doesn't break down the entire volume where it would flag in an OA.

This "may" explain why his "alleged' OA kept coming back good but the oil was breaking down incrementally and not flagging.

 

[OVERKILL]

TBN is an effective measure of an oil's ability to resist oxidation by acids by its alkaline. In cases where that's not the prime mover of the failure, it doesn't help much.

First, as others have said, I don't think much of this oil to begin with and since its exact properties are unknown as are the history of the OA, my assessment is speculative based on a visual ( and worth exactly that).

I have seen this in a lot of industrial equipment and some hydraulics- it may apply here too

It appears that the culprit could be simple thermal decomposition ( air induced or just a property of the oil) which sticks in thin layers, cokes and gets harder and thicker over time.

I have seen this where a small amount sticks to the metal then agglomerates over time and cooks harder as time goes by.

In many cases the effect is so localized and quick that it doesn't break down the entire volume where it would flag in an OA.

This "may" explain why his "alleged' OA kept coming back good but the oil was breaking down incrementally and not flagging.

Yep, becomes essentially a varnish, which, when thick, looks like what's pictured. This is covered in one of the old tribology handbooks that's available on google that I grabbed this snap out of years ago:

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

Yep, becomes essentially a varnish, which, when thick, looks like what's pictured. This is covered in one of the old tribology handbooks that's available on google that I grabbed this snap out of years ago:
View attachment 27878

Yeah ( lot of if's here)

IF we believe the oil in question is a quality oil and

IF we believe the change history and all sampling indicated no problem with the oil and

IF we believe that's the actual damage evident in the engine

Then it would almost have to be a repeated process of oil "splashing" on a hot surface drying then cooking over periods of time. ( possibly atomized and maybe in vapor too).

I would have a hard time accepting that anything else that would degrade the oil in bulk ( which would cause the presented varnishing) would be "undetected" in any quality OA.

I find the entire account "suspect" in many areas- especially the recipe and quality of the oil in question.

 

[OVERKILL]

Yeah ( lot of if's here)

IF we believe the oil in question is a quality oil and

IF we believe the change history and all sampling indicated no problem with the oil and

IF we believe that's the actual damage evident in the engine

Then it would almost have to be a repeated process of oil "splashing" on a hot surface drying then cooking over periods of time. ( possibly atomized and maybe in vapor too).

I would have a hard time accepting that anything else that would degrade the oil in bulk ( which would cause the presented varnishing) would be "undetected" in any quality OA.

I find the entire account "suspect" in many areas- especially the recipe and quality of the oil in question.

That last line is what does it for me. AFAIK, the HEMI's aren't hard on oil, they aren't wickedly high power density and most of them live long happy lives on bulk oil that meets the minimum spec. That the use of this lubricant resulted in the internals looking like that certainly calls into questions the blending characteristics and quality of the lubricant overall.

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

That last line is what does it for me. AFAIK, the HEMI's aren't hard on oil, they aren't wickedly high power density and most of them live long happy lives on bulk oil that meets the minimum spec. That the use of this lubricant resulted in the internals looking like that certainly calls into questions the blending characteristics and quality of the lubricant overall.

I must concur. I get real suspicious real fast with new "miracle products" that allegedly do everything but then they keep the details secret while hiding behind vague marketing terms.

That guy on that thread ( presumably the owner or principal of the blue oil) did it for me. I have seen infomercials and used car salesmen with more technical credibility than he showed.

 

[OVERKILL]

I must concur. I get real suspicious real fast with new "miracle products" that allegedly do everything but then they keep the details secret while hiding behind vague marketing terms.

That guy on that thread ( presumably the owner or principal of the blue oil) did it for me. I have seen infomercials and used car salesmen with more technical credibility than he showed.

That's definitely inline with @MolaKule take on him earlier so it seems we are all very much in agreement

 

[ABN_CBT_ENGR]

someone should invite him here, that might prove interesting (or at least entertaining)

 

[kschachn]

Don't forget too that this is the same place that sells 5w20, 5w25, 7.5w23, 8w35, 10w35, 12.5w32,12.5w35, 12.5w37, 7.5w40, 12.5w40, 15w45, 16.3w37.5, 17.5w45, 20w35 and 20w50 racing oils. At least they don't put "SAE" in front of those grade designations.

 

[OVERKILL]

Don't forget too that this is the same place that sells 5w20, 5w25, 7.5w23, 8w35, 10w35, 12.5w32,12.5w35, 12.5w37, 7.5w40, 12.5w40, 15w45, 16.3w37.5, 17.5w45, 20w35 & 20w50 racing oils. At least they don't put "SAE" in front of those grade designations.

Wow! But that goes right along with the tripe that Mola covered in his post, the excrement is so deep you need hip waders, so it doesn't surprise me that they'd be perfectly fine with making up grades to make them sound even more unique

 

[buster]

"Quantum"

 

[nicholas]

Vehicle owner used QuantumBlue oil from 500 miles up until 127K miles. The vehicle's engine experienced an issue (possibly camshaft/lifter failure) at 127K miles. After disassembly, the repair shop found the insides of the engine to be coated with "black crust." From the pictures, it looks like sludge. The vehicle owner performed oil changes at extended intervals (16K) because the Blackstone UOA results supported the drain intervals. For example, on the UOA preview he posted, the TBN was 2.4.

Part of the reason for this thread is to discuss whether a Blackstone UOA provides enough information to validate engine oil drain intervals. Based on the limited information posted, it would appear that the oil had adequate TBN remaining so one would assume that the oil was still keeping the engine's parts clean. Clearly, that was far from the case here. I think we are trying to understand what went wrong and what a UOA does not tell us in regards to an oil's continued serviceability.

If @dnewton3 or @MolaKule can add their thoughts on this matter, I think the feedback can be valuable.

It sure looks like they did not.
That black crap looks nasty. No way that's normal.
Oil or OCI or both.

Never had an engine like that. Stay away from that blue junk.

 

[Malo83]

Time to get rid of that franken oil and go with Pennz.

Automakers Set the Standard, Pennzoil® Pushes Performance to the Next Level

Car makers from around the world trust Pennzoil motor oil in their cars and so should you. Make the switch today.

www.pennzoil.com

 

[Kokopelli34179]

Even Supertech doesn't do that!
That BND guy from the other forum there, mentions rich mixture...LOL, the Fuel Treatment the OP of that thread used is made also by BND...

 

[spasm3]

I would run supertech syn, before using that oil. He must be super impressed that they print out a label for the bottle with his name on it.

 

[Kokopelli34179]

"It has my name on the label, it must be good!"

LOL

 

[JustN89]

If I ran a company's engine oil and fuel treatment and then lost an engine prematurely, even if it wasn't the lubes fault, I'd be hard-pressed to ever use that company's products again. That's what baffles me the most here. Not that the lube performed subpar, but that he goes right back to it in the face of overwhelming evidence of poor performance.