Isnt Ultra superior on paper, based on base stock formulation?..so why isnt it dexos 1 approved?
QSUD is dexos 1..Ultra is not..implications?
- Thread starter rikstaker
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Because Ultra is not a big seller and it costs a lot of money for the pretty dexos1 emblem.
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Well it seems theyre phasing it out so they probably didnt want pay for the testing.
It's still available at my Walmart.
Originally Posted By: ChevyBadger
Well it seems theyre phasing it out so they probably didnt want pay for the testing.
Not likely the testing part. SOPUS likely did not want to pay GM a kickback for a DEXOS license on another product.
Well it seems theyre phasing it out so they probably didnt want pay for the testing.
Not likely the testing part. SOPUS likely did not want to pay GM a kickback for a DEXOS license on another product.
I am in Chicago..drove down here to meet my parents..went to a walmart and picked up 4 5 qt cans of ultra 5w20..
also saw the qsud 0w20 .another rare animal up north..its funny how with the canadian winters, it is hard to find decent otc 0w oils apart from m1 0w20..which comes in a package thats not sufficient for bigger 4cyl engines and up..
and all oils priced half of what i pay in toronto..mom had to drag me out of the isle just like she used to from the gaming isle not too long ago,
I sopused all over the floor...
and all oils priced half of what i pay in toronto..mom had to drag me out of the isle just like she used to from the gaming isle not too long ago,
I sopused all over the floor...
Originally Posted By: rikstaker
I am in Chicago..drove down here to meet my parents..went to a walmart and picked up 4 5 qt cans of ultra 5w20..
also saw the qsud 0w20 .another rare animal up north..its funny how with the canadian winters, it is hard to find decent otc 0w oils apart from m1 0w20..which comes in a package thats not sufficient for bigger 4cyl engines and up..
and all oils priced half of what i pay in toronto..mom had to drag me out of the isle just like she used to from the gaming isle not too long ago,
I sopused all over the floor...
Just go to your local Toyota store. They have a few in Mississauga. TGMO 0W-20 is available for $5.70 per liter. Made by Mobil and as good or better than Mobil 1. And you don't lose on the exchange rate.
I am in Chicago..drove down here to meet my parents..went to a walmart and picked up 4 5 qt cans of ultra 5w20..
and all oils priced half of what i pay in toronto..mom had to drag me out of the isle just like she used to from the gaming isle not too long ago,
I sopused all over the floor...
Just go to your local Toyota store. They have a few in Mississauga. TGMO 0W-20 is available for $5.70 per liter. Made by Mobil and as good or better than Mobil 1. And you don't lose on the exchange rate.
I think the problem with Ultra is it is too good for the current market to turn a profit off of.
Not everyone has a turbo'ed race car.
There just aren't enough people stuffing it into a Honda Fit it seems...
... And those that do only got it for an extremely low price.
If Ultra falls off of the market I hope Shell at least sells the base stock to the boutique oil companies.
The low Noack% GTL base oil would be a shame if they mothballed it. Some people do have an application for this base oil, and the need is growing.
I think they released this oil 2-3 years too early, but I guess they did need a product to satisfy the turbo'ed cars as more economy cars are coming turbo'ed.
Not everyone has a turbo'ed race car.
There just aren't enough people stuffing it into a Honda Fit it seems...
... And those that do only got it for an extremely low price.
If Ultra falls off of the market I hope Shell at least sells the base stock to the boutique oil companies.
The low Noack% GTL base oil would be a shame if they mothballed it. Some people do have an application for this base oil, and the need is growing.
I think they released this oil 2-3 years too early, but I guess they did need a product to satisfy the turbo'ed cars as more economy cars are coming turbo'ed.
Originally Posted By: Falken
I think the problem with Ultra is it is too good for the current market to turn a profit off of.
Given that they sell Platinum for $2-3 less per jug, I agree. I think they should consolidate the two. Get Platinum out of the way. Something. Ultra is a great lubricant, and anyone can benefit from its excellent base stock. Problem is, nobody's buying it; not because it's "too good" for them, but because it's undercut by Platinum for a few bucks a jug.
I think the problem with Ultra is it is too good for the current market to turn a profit off of.
Given that they sell Platinum for $2-3 less per jug, I agree. I think they should consolidate the two. Get Platinum out of the way. Something. Ultra is a great lubricant, and anyone can benefit from its excellent base stock. Problem is, nobody's buying it; not because it's "too good" for them, but because it's undercut by Platinum for a few bucks a jug.
Continuing slightly off topic here, does the Dexos approval of QSUD imply that it might be slightly better than PP, which isn't Dexos licensed? I am not up on the Dexos requirements.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Falken
I think the problem with Ultra is it is too good for the current market to turn a profit off of.
Given that they sell Platinum for $2-3 less per jug, I agree. I think they should consolidate the two. Get Platinum out of the way. Something. Ultra is a great lubricant, and anyone can benefit from its excellent base stock. Problem is, nobody's buying it; not because it's "too good" for them, but because it's undercut by Platinum for a few bucks a jug.
We're not buying it up here because we can't get it! I do think you'd see the same thing here though, I don't think Edge Ti does very well because most just don't see it as a value compared to Edge SPT.
I guess another option would be to leave PP alone, bump the price of Ultra a bit more and take the gloves off, drop the API certs and go after the boutique stuff.
As far as it not having dexos1, I think that just means they didn't certify it, what ever their reasons were. I doubt there is much more than that to read into it. Some of the best candidates for this oil would be the hi-perf Chevys and those usually have M1 right on the oil cap so a lot of people won't look at anything else anyway. If they do, there's PP which likely isn't costing SOPUS money to sell, so why bother with a certification that won't bring them much business?
Originally Posted By: Falken
I think the problem with Ultra is it is too good for the current market to turn a profit off of.
Given that they sell Platinum for $2-3 less per jug, I agree. I think they should consolidate the two. Get Platinum out of the way. Something. Ultra is a great lubricant, and anyone can benefit from its excellent base stock. Problem is, nobody's buying it; not because it's "too good" for them, but because it's undercut by Platinum for a few bucks a jug.
We're not buying it up here because we can't get it! I do think you'd see the same thing here though, I don't think Edge Ti does very well because most just don't see it as a value compared to Edge SPT.
I guess another option would be to leave PP alone, bump the price of Ultra a bit more and take the gloves off, drop the API certs and go after the boutique stuff.
As far as it not having dexos1, I think that just means they didn't certify it, what ever their reasons were. I doubt there is much more than that to read into it. Some of the best candidates for this oil would be the hi-perf Chevys and those usually have M1 right on the oil cap so a lot of people won't look at anything else anyway. If they do, there's PP which likely isn't costing SOPUS money to sell, so why bother with a certification that won't bring them much business?
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Continuing slightly off topic here, does the Dexos approval of QSUD imply that it might be slightly better than PP, which isn't Dexos licensed? I am not up on the Dexos requirements.
PP is a licensed dexos1 product.
Continuing slightly off topic here, does the Dexos approval of QSUD imply that it might be slightly better than PP, which isn't Dexos licensed? I am not up on the Dexos requirements.
PP is a licensed dexos1 product.
keep in mind GM cannot REQUIRE you to use Dexos oil to maintain your warranty, by law. Even their owners manual states "OR EQUIVALENT".If I recall, PZ syn blend is DEXOS licensed.
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Originally Posted By: 3putter
keep in mind GM cannot REQUIRE you to use Dexos oil to maintain your warranty, by law. Even their owners manual states "OR EQUIVALENT".If I recall, PZ syn blend is DEXOS licensed.
Yes they can. They just don't.
They cannot require you to use AC Delco oil. But they can require you to use an oil that meets specific performance criteria, like oil that meets the DEXOS 1 standard for example.
This is the way the Euro marques have been doing it forever.
keep in mind GM cannot REQUIRE you to use Dexos oil to maintain your warranty, by law. Even their owners manual states "OR EQUIVALENT".If I recall, PZ syn blend is DEXOS licensed.
Yes they can. They just don't.
They cannot require you to use AC Delco oil. But they can require you to use an oil that meets specific performance criteria, like oil that meets the DEXOS 1 standard for example.
This is the way the Euro marques have been doing it forever.
Are you saying that GM can (if they wanted to) require owners to use only oil that is only on on the Dexos list rather than an oil that meets Dexos specifications?
My understanding is that, they can require an oil that meets the spec, but can not require it to be Dexos licensed. (I'm not trying to split hairs I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly)
My understanding is that, they can require an oil that meets the spec, but can not require it to be Dexos licensed. (I'm not trying to split hairs I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly)
99 Saturn is correct. As I previously stated, the owners manual clearly states "OR EQUIVALENT".
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Originally Posted By: 99Saturn
Are you saying that GM can (if they wanted to) require owners to use only oil that is only on on the Dexos list rather than an oil that meets Dexos specifications?
My understanding is that, they can require an oil that meets the spec, but can not require it to be Dexos licensed. (I'm not trying to split hairs I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly)
The "License" portion of DEXOS may make it play out a bit differently, but yes, BMW does it with their LL-0x, Mercedes does it with their spec's, VW does it with theirs....etc. However these are performance approval standards and not a "license".
A manufacturer CAN require you to use an approved lubricant. They cannot however require you to use THEIR lubricant, as per MM.
GM isn't requiring you to use theirs, but the royalty thing with DEXOS may not put it on the same playing field as the Euro approvals.
Are you saying that GM can (if they wanted to) require owners to use only oil that is only on on the Dexos list rather than an oil that meets Dexos specifications?
My understanding is that, they can require an oil that meets the spec, but can not require it to be Dexos licensed. (I'm not trying to split hairs I'm just trying to make sure I understand correctly)
The "License" portion of DEXOS may make it play out a bit differently, but yes, BMW does it with their LL-0x, Mercedes does it with their spec's, VW does it with theirs....etc. However these are performance approval standards and not a "license".
A manufacturer CAN require you to use an approved lubricant. They cannot however require you to use THEIR lubricant, as per MM.
GM isn't requiring you to use theirs, but the royalty thing with DEXOS may not put it on the same playing field as the Euro approvals.
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Originally Posted By: 3putter
99 Saturn is correct. As I previously stated, the owners manual clearly states "OR EQUIVALENT".
Yes, but GM stating "or equivalent" doesn't make your previous statement valid. It just means that GM has given the option of using an "equivalent" oil. Many manufacturers don't.
99 Saturn is correct. As I previously stated, the owners manual clearly states "OR EQUIVALENT".
Yes, but GM stating "or equivalent" doesn't make your previous statement valid. It just means that GM has given the option of using an "equivalent" oil. Many manufacturers don't.
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To expand on this further, Ford, in their manuals state (up until 2014):
Originally Posted By: Ford
Engine oil need only meet the
requirements of Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A and display the API Certification Mark.
Your engine has been designed to be used with Ford engine oil, which gives a fuel economy
benefit while maintaining the durability of your engine.
Which means of course that the oil doesn't have to be approved by Ford, it simply needs to meet the requirements.
Which is very different from what Mercedes states:
Originally Posted By: Mercedes
Mercedes-Benz has very specific engine lubrication requirements and only oils that have a MB approval number and the approved viscosity ranges are to be used when servicing your engine. The MB approval number is marked on the oil container similar to Figure 1. Verify the correct MB approval number on the individual oil container or accordingly for oil available in bulk quantities.
Audi is similar:
Originally Posted By: Audi
Oil Quality
All Audi engines must always use engine oils that conform to the applicable Audi Oil Quality Standard. No other
engine oils may be used. This also applies when topping off engine oil between services.
Originally Posted By: Ford
Engine oil need only meet the
requirements of Ford specification WSS-M2C945-A and display the API Certification Mark.
Your engine has been designed to be used with Ford engine oil, which gives a fuel economy
benefit while maintaining the durability of your engine.
Which means of course that the oil doesn't have to be approved by Ford, it simply needs to meet the requirements.
Which is very different from what Mercedes states:
Originally Posted By: Mercedes
Mercedes-Benz has very specific engine lubrication requirements and only oils that have a MB approval number and the approved viscosity ranges are to be used when servicing your engine. The MB approval number is marked on the oil container similar to Figure 1. Verify the correct MB approval number on the individual oil container or accordingly for oil available in bulk quantities.
Audi is similar:
Originally Posted By: Audi
Oil Quality
All Audi engines must always use engine oils that conform to the applicable Audi Oil Quality Standard. No other
engine oils may be used. This also applies when topping off engine oil between services.
As far as I have seen Ultra has never stated to meet or exceed Dexos spec. At least Valvoline products say that they meet or exceed even though they do not pay to get a license. To me Ultra does not meet the warranty requirement for Dexos unless someone has inside knowledge from SOPUS and intimate knowledge of Dexos requirements.
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