If you want high ZDDP at a good price, get some Delo 10w30. ~1200 Zn and P.
qs defy sl because of extra zddp?
- Thread starter sinclair1
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Originally Posted By: zach1900
Are SL and SM really that much different?
API SM reduced the ZDDP limits
Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200
SB 1000
SA 0
Are SL and SM really that much different?
API SM reduced the ZDDP limits
Grade Zinc, Phos
SM MAX 800
SL/SJ 1000-1400
SH 1000-1400
SG 1000-1400
SF 1000-1400
SE 1000-1200
SD 1000-1200
SC 1000-1200
SB 1000
SA 0
Not 100% sure about the change I found conflicting info but SL was higher.
GF-1 SH: 1200 ppm max phos
GF-2 SJ and GF3 SL: 1000 ppm max phos
GF-4 SM: 600 to 800 ppm max phos
GF-1 SH: 1200 ppm max phos
GF-2 SJ and GF3 SL: 1000 ppm max phos
GF-4 SM: 600 to 800 ppm max phos
Originally Posted By: sinclair1
Is deli rated for gas too?
No deli I've seen has been rated for gas, although some should be.
Is deli rated for gas too?
No deli I've seen has been rated for gas, although some should be.
Don't worry about the higher zinc levels in Defy. It clearly says on the bottle, and on QS's website, that the extra zinc is catalytic converter friendly. Defy is a great oil that I'm very fond of, but at the end of the day it's a high mileage oil, not a highly volatile racing oil. Defy is one of the old school HM oils, so it isn't actually API rated because it's not "resource conserving" and the anti wear additive levels are higher than it's API rated conventional counterpart. Use with the utmost confidence. Quaker State doesn't make a bad product. Moreover, niether does all of SOPUS.
Originally Posted By: Tony10s
Originally Posted By: zach1900
It's actually not even rated by the API is it, I have a quart that says "meets or exceeds SL API" but it doesn't have the doughnut .
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's not an "Energy Conserving" oil.
I was thinking it can't have the doughnut because its an SL oil when SN is the thing.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
It's actually not even rated by the API is it, I have a quart that says "meets or exceeds SL API" but it doesn't have the doughnut .
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's not an "Energy Conserving" oil.
I was thinking it can't have the doughnut because its an SL oil when SN is the thing.
It's not the zinc that wrecks Cat's it is the sulfer-phosphorus.
EPA mandated Cat's must last 100,000 miles. In a high mileage marketed oil they can keep both the zinc and phosphorus up because the cat is near its 100,000 miles anyway. Lowering the phosphorus makes additional zinc a waste of money. ZDDP, which is both the zinc and the phosphorus, only works if the oil also has moly in its formulation.
EPA mandated Cat's must last 100,000 miles. In a high mileage marketed oil they can keep both the zinc and phosphorus up because the cat is near its 100,000 miles anyway. Lowering the phosphorus makes additional zinc a waste of money. ZDDP, which is both the zinc and the phosphorus, only works if the oil also has moly in its formulation.
Originally Posted By: willyreid
ZDDP, which is both the zinc and the phosphorus, only works if the oil also has moly in its formulation.
Since when? Lots of oils don't have moly, and just about all have ZDDP. Are you saying formulators are using a useless ingredient, and you've discovered this secret?
ZDDP, which is both the zinc and the phosphorus, only works if the oil also has moly in its formulation.
Since when? Lots of oils don't have moly, and just about all have ZDDP. Are you saying formulators are using a useless ingredient, and you've discovered this secret?
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: willyreid
ZDDP, which is both the zinc and the phosphorus, only works if the oil also has moly in its formulation.
Since when? Lots of oils don't have moly, and just about all have ZDDP. Are you saying formulators are using a useless ingredient, and you've discovered this secret?
+1
Originally Posted By: willyreid
ZDDP, which is both the zinc and the phosphorus, only works if the oil also has moly in its formulation.
Since when? Lots of oils don't have moly, and just about all have ZDDP. Are you saying formulators are using a useless ingredient, and you've discovered this secret?
+1
You know how it is. Another new week, and another far fetched tale from another "new" poster.
Originally Posted By: Garak
You know how it is. Another new week, and another far fetched tale from another "new" poster.
I think it's just the newbies think they know something the rest of us don't. "Trying to impress". Sometimes they do, but most of the time it's false information obtained from an unreliable source. Plenty of bad info on the net, Just my .02 cents.....
You know how it is. Another new week, and another far fetched tale from another "new" poster.
I think it's just the newbies think they know something the rest of us don't. "Trying to impress". Sometimes they do, but most of the time it's false information obtained from an unreliable source. Plenty of bad info on the net, Just my .02 cents.....
An API SL 10W30 is sort of an ILSAC GF-3 oil which either hasn't been put through, or hasn't passed, the Sequence VIB fuel economy test. There are a couple of other minor differences.
I have to admit to having a soft spot for these sorts of oils. My guess is because it didn't have to pass the VIB, this oil will have a highish CCS and as a consequence, have a decently low Noack.
I agree with the person who suggested that Shell have blended this oil with heavy ZDDP. The move to low volatility ZDDP probably balances off the effect of a higher than normal Zinc/Phos in the oil vis-à-vis cat deactivation.
I have to admit to having a soft spot for these sorts of oils. My guess is because it didn't have to pass the VIB, this oil will have a highish CCS and as a consequence, have a decently low Noack.
I agree with the person who suggested that Shell have blended this oil with heavy ZDDP. The move to low volatility ZDDP probably balances off the effect of a higher than normal Zinc/Phos in the oil vis-à-vis cat deactivation.
I've posted this before, but here is an interesting and easy to read article on zinc in oil from Penrite.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/0Zinc Myths & Legends Nov 2014.pdf
It includes a bit of history about the older API grades, and how some of the old high zinc levels were due to lead (Pb as TEL) in the petrol reducing the effectiveness of the zinc and thus requiring a higher Zn (ZDDP) dose.
With Pb free fuel, less Zn is required for the same level of protection. Also there is no Zn/P limits on non-ILSAC grades of oil like xW-40. That's why last time I looked M1 0W-40 was API SN with about 1000ppm Zn/P. Well above the regular 800 ppm levels for light ILSAC oils.
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/0Zinc Myths & Legends Nov 2014.pdf
It includes a bit of history about the older API grades, and how some of the old high zinc levels were due to lead (Pb as TEL) in the petrol reducing the effectiveness of the zinc and thus requiring a higher Zn (ZDDP) dose.
With Pb free fuel, less Zn is required for the same level of protection. Also there is no Zn/P limits on non-ILSAC grades of oil like xW-40. That's why last time I looked M1 0W-40 was API SN with about 1000ppm Zn/P. Well above the regular 800 ppm levels for light ILSAC oils.
Originally Posted By: SR5
It includes a bit of history about the older API grades, and how some of the old high zinc levels were due to lead (Pb as TEL) in the petrol reducing the effectiveness of the zinc and thus requiring a higher Zn (ZDDP) dose.
In older formulations, the ZDDP served two key functions, anti-wear and anti-oxidation, therefore also contributing to the higher dosage. Newer formulations can use a lower dose of ZDDP for just the anti-wear role as they contain higher doses of supplemental anti-oxidants. The industry has determined through testing that 0.06% to 0.08% of phosphorus from ZDDP is a sufficient amount to accomplish the anti-wear function, even in older broken-in flat tappet engines. It may not be a sufficient dose, however, for performance modified engines, or for breaking in a rebuilt engine or new camshaft.
Tom NJ
It includes a bit of history about the older API grades, and how some of the old high zinc levels were due to lead (Pb as TEL) in the petrol reducing the effectiveness of the zinc and thus requiring a higher Zn (ZDDP) dose.
In older formulations, the ZDDP served two key functions, anti-wear and anti-oxidation, therefore also contributing to the higher dosage. Newer formulations can use a lower dose of ZDDP for just the anti-wear role as they contain higher doses of supplemental anti-oxidants. The industry has determined through testing that 0.06% to 0.08% of phosphorus from ZDDP is a sufficient amount to accomplish the anti-wear function, even in older broken-in flat tappet engines. It may not be a sufficient dose, however, for performance modified engines, or for breaking in a rebuilt engine or new camshaft.
Tom NJ
Apparently he's never seen a UOA/VOA of Rotella. I guess SOPUS has no idea what they are doing.
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
An API SL 10W30 is sort of an ILSAC GF-3 oil which either hasn't been put through, or hasn't passed, the Sequence VIB fuel economy test. There are a couple of other minor differences.
Really what has happened is that we've been trolled. Not only did we get a bunch of hokum about ZDDP, Defy in 5w-30 and 10w-30 are now SN/GF-5 and this thread is highly dated. See here. Of course, the Shell data sheets are as obsolete as SL itself, but that's another matter.
An API SL 10W30 is sort of an ILSAC GF-3 oil which either hasn't been put through, or hasn't passed, the Sequence VIB fuel economy test. There are a couple of other minor differences.
Really what has happened is that we've been trolled. Not only did we get a bunch of hokum about ZDDP, Defy in 5w-30 and 10w-30 are now SN/GF-5 and this thread is highly dated. See here. Of course, the Shell data sheets are as obsolete as SL itself, but that's another matter.
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: SR5
It includes a bit of history about the older API grades, and how some of the old high zinc levels were due to lead (Pb as TEL) in the petrol reducing the effectiveness of the zinc and thus requiring a higher Zn (ZDDP) dose.
In older formulations, the ZDDP served two key functions, anti-wear and anti-oxidation, therefore also contributing to the higher dosage. Newer formulations can use a lower dose of ZDDP for just the anti-wear role as they contain higher doses of supplemental anti-oxidants. The industry has determined through testing that 0.06% to 0.08% of phosphorus from ZDDP is a sufficient amount to accomplish the anti-wear function, even in older broken-in flat tappet engines. It may not be a sufficient dose, however, for performance modified engines, or for breaking in a rebuilt engine or new camshaft.
Tom NJ
Great answer.
Defy doesn't have extra zddp. It has extra zinc. Big difference.
Originally Posted By: SR5
It includes a bit of history about the older API grades, and how some of the old high zinc levels were due to lead (Pb as TEL) in the petrol reducing the effectiveness of the zinc and thus requiring a higher Zn (ZDDP) dose.
In older formulations, the ZDDP served two key functions, anti-wear and anti-oxidation, therefore also contributing to the higher dosage. Newer formulations can use a lower dose of ZDDP for just the anti-wear role as they contain higher doses of supplemental anti-oxidants. The industry has determined through testing that 0.06% to 0.08% of phosphorus from ZDDP is a sufficient amount to accomplish the anti-wear function, even in older broken-in flat tappet engines. It may not be a sufficient dose, however, for performance modified engines, or for breaking in a rebuilt engine or new camshaft.
Tom NJ
Great answer.
Defy doesn't have extra zddp. It has extra zinc. Big difference.
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