Putting together a groups 3/4/5 synthetic list

Pennzoil motor oil
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The final formulated product and specifications are what matters.
There are no magic elixirs based upon base oil composition.

Mobil 1 0w40 is a fine oil if it meets or exceeds the specifications you need.

So is Supertech 0w20.

I would run either in the same vehicle depending on season and usage.
 
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Originally Posted by bowtie4by
Rotella T6 is PAO, and is formulated to be used exclusively in diesels, due to high phosphorous and zinc levels.



Me thinks this is completely incorrect...
wink.gif




Please document. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by bowtie4by
It is a group III or mineral/petroleum oil that distilled from crude. It does not have the characteristics that PAO or ester have. I will use only PAO (IV) or ester (V), or a blend of the two.

What characteristics are those? Are all Group III base stocks the same in this example? Does it matter what the additive pack is, or is it solely determined by the base?

Also, it appears to me as though it's still called "European (Car) Formula" along with the "FS". What does FS stand for, anyway?



Ask Mobil. I am not in their marketing department. Thanks.
 
Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
The final formulated product and specifications are what matters.
There are no magic elixirs based upon base oil composition.

Mobil 1 0w40 is a fine oil if it meets or exceeds the specifications you need.

So is Supertech 0w20.

I would run either in the same vehicle depending on season and usage.



"there are no magic elixirs based upon base oil composition."--Jet engine performance require esters, thus disproving your theorem.
R/S,
Greg
P.S.: Thank you for your service, sir.
 
By the way, MrWideTires, I support your endeavor. I'd love to see an Excel Spreadsheet detailing true synthetics (IV and V). Let's expose the III for the frauds that they are.
 
Originally Posted by bowtie4by
By the way, MrWideTires, I support your endeavor. I'd love to see an Excel Spreadsheet detailing true synthetics (IV and V). Let's expose the III for the frauds that they are.



Do you know of a pure group 4 or 5 synthetic oil ?
 
FS= Forcible [censored] in the price you pay for a group III base oil from M1. Save your money and buy walmart synthetic and get basically the same thing.
 
Originally Posted by bowtie4by
By the way, MrWideTires, I support your endeavor. I'd love to see an Excel Spreadsheet detailing true synthetics (IV and V). Let's expose the III for the frauds that they are.

What's the master plan in order to expose them??
 
I can see this thread offending all blenders/tribo-chemist types. Like "how dare you cheapen our business and oversimplify our process".

They just would not want to encourage this behaviour on all fronts. Bear that in mind.

Originally Posted by sloinker
FS= Forcible [censored] in the price you pay for a group III base oil from M1. Save your money and buy walmart synthetic and get basically the same thing.

IKR?? Seriolusly!
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
I can see this thread offending all blenders/tribo-chemist types. Like "how dare you cheapen our business and oversimplify our process".

They just would not want to encourage this behaviour on all fronts. Bear that in mind.

Originally Posted by sloinker
FS= Forcible [censored] in the price you pay for a group III base oil from M1. Save your money and buy walmart synthetic and get basically the same thing.

IKR?? Seriolusly!


Just a guess but I'm thinking most all synthetics Including M1 are predominately Group III's with an add pack. I suppose it is possible some have a splash of IV and some maybe even a smaller splash of V, most likely not, because if they did you can rest assured it would be proclaimed in headline sized letters, . t Without transperancy I figure they are all III's now. (Pennzoil made with natural gas I think may deserve its own category). If you know different please tell.
 
Originally Posted by sloinker
Originally Posted by PeterPolyol
I can see this thread offending all blenders/tribo-chemist types. Like "how dare you cheapen our business and oversimplify our process".

They just would not want to encourage this behaviour on all fronts. Bear that in mind.

Originally Posted by sloinker
FS= Forcible [censored] in the price you pay for a group III base oil from M1. Save your money and buy walmart synthetic and get basically the same thing.

IKR?? Seriolusly!


Just a guess but I'm thinking most all synthetics Including M1 are predominately Group III's with an add pack. I suppose it is possible some have a splash of IV and some maybe even a smaller splash of V, most likely not, because if they did you can rest assured it would be proclaimed in headline sized letters, . t Without transperancy I figure they are all III's now. (Pennzoil made with natural gas I think may deserve its own category). If you know different please tell.



If you had read the M1 SDS of which they are more upfront than most in the components then you would know that they have varying percentages of group 4 depending on the product line.
 
Originally Posted by PimTac

If you had read the M1 SDS of which they are more upfront than most in the components then you would know that they have varying percentages of group 4 depending on the product line.

SDS also tell us PAO usually limited to specialty blends now. Well perhaps they figured out that consumers would be looking at them and drawing conclusions based on them, if their base slate even remotely allowed blending with PAOs. Doubt it's just mobil either
wink.gif


About GrV, probably most oils on the shelf have some, even conventionals. Organic EP adds, FMs, solubility improvers, seal conditioners, correction fluids. Very small but effective amounts.
 
Originally Posted by bowtie4by
By the way, MrWideTires, I support your endeavor. I'd love to see an Excel Spreadsheet detailing true synthetics (IV and V). Let's expose the III for the frauds that they are.

Of course you do, "newbie".

What a joke.
 
Originally Posted by bowtie4by
Rotella T6 is PAO, and is formulated to be used exclusively in diesels, due to high phosphorous and zinc levels.

Rotella T6 is Group III GTL. It used to have at least a splash of Group IV, according to Chevron testing, but that was before Shell began to really roll out the GTL oils.
 
Joe Gibbs Driven full synthetic oils including FR20, LS30, DT40, DI30, etc... use a PAO/POE blend base oil.

I disagree with the statement that there's little performance difference between groups III, IV, and V. I have a hard time believing that a hydrocracked group III or GTL, blended with ANs and VIIs, could match the volatility and HTHS numbers of a PAO/POE oil.
 
Originally Posted by MrWideTires
I'd like to put together a list of which synthetics fall under what group. I've been seeing a lot of false information online, mainly Facebook car groups.. where amsoil reps like to claim that their oil is group 5 and "specially formulated for racing!", and people eat it up.

It would be good for BITOG to have also, I'm concentrating on synthetics because that is what most car guys with higher performance cars like to use.
Also just concentrating on oils that are readily available in the US, either on the shelfs or online from a US distributor.

Can I get any info/confirmation of what groups these oils fall under? Am I missing any oils?

Redline High Performance (group 5)
Redline Professional Series
Motul 300V (Group 5)
Motul 8100
Amsoil Signature series (group 4)
Amsoil XL
Amsoil OE
Amsoil Z-Rod
Amsoil Euro
Schaeffers
LiquiMoly
Mobil 1 (I think only the 0w40 is a group 4?)
Mobil Super (group 3)
Eneos
Royal Purple
Total
Rotella (group 3?)
Millers Oils
Brad Penn
Ravenol
Pennzoil Platinum (group 3)
Pennzoil Ultra
Castrol Syntec (group 3)
Castrol Edge

I made a base-oil-quality index (BOQI) list a while back, which some people like and others don't. PAO scores the highest in the list, followed by GTL, then by Group III, and then by Group II.

Most are Group III. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is GTL. Mobil 1 0W-20 (Especially the EP and AP) is PAO. The only Amsoil that I know to be PAO is Signature Series -- most others are Group III. Pennzoil is GTL.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan

I made a base-oil-quality index (BOQI) list a while back, which some people like and others don't. PAO scores the highest in the list, followed by GTL, then by Group III, and then by Group II.

Most are Group III. Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is GTL. Mobil 1 0W-20 (Especially the EP and AP) is PAO. The only Amsoil that I know to be PAO is Signature Series -- most others are Group III. Pennzoil is GTL.


How can one create ANY Index or do any correlation if one can not know the exact composition of a finished oil, or know its base oil composition?
 
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