how to tell engine oil in which base stock group?

Messages
14
Location
Vancouver
How to tell engine oil in which base stock? Group 3, 4 or 5? Is this true? Motul 300v (ester based) - Group 5? THE BEST? Redline - Group 5 ? Amsoil - Group 4 ? Mobil 1 SuperSyn- Group 4 ? Castrol Syntec - Group 3 ?
 
Messages
13,132
Location
By Detroit
I understand that Chevron dino oils are Group II basestock, but cannot get any information on Valvoline. Anybody know what basestock group is used in Valvoline Maxlife?
 
Messages
2,908
Location
Georgia/Retired
You can get a pretty good idea about the basestock of the oils by looking at pour points and flash points. Also, many MSDS's will list the main ingredients of the basestock and content percentages. The CAS numbers (chemical abstract numbers) that are listed as 64xxx are mineral oils and numbers listed as 68xxx are the PAO's and esters. The benefits of one group over another is more difficult to define. One of the main concerns with oils that are group 3 basestock is that the companies charge you group 4 prices. This is also a ethics issues with regard to the deception that is taking place in the labeling of the product. The group 4 oils will outperform the group 3 oils at the extreme limits with regards to flash and pour point. Oils with a strong amount of esters (gp 5) will do a better job of keeping your engine clean. It all boils down to how well balanced the basestock and additive components work together. For my money, if I'm in the market for a synthetic oil I don't want to pay inflated prices for a highly refined mineral oil. Maybe my engine won't know the difference but I will. [ December 02, 2003, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: FowVay ]
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
Amsoil uses blended, Group IV/Group V, basestocks that combine the best features of PAO's and various types of organic esters. It's been their approach for about the last 25 years. For their first 7-8 years, they primarily used diester (dibasic acid ester) base oils .... No one, including Redline, uses > 40% polyol-esters in their basestocks - their oils be about $15.00/qt-$20.00/qt if you did. (check prices on even low viscosity, 100%,PE based, jet turbine oils). The 100% synthetic oils you see (like Motul), are made from the less expensive, diester basestocks. Tooslick www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
 
Messages
509
Location
Las Vegas, NV
<b>Molakule</b>, where did you hear that Castrol Syntec is group III and II? I thought that Castrol Syntec was group III with a little group V mixed in.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Messages
21,595
Location
Iowegia - USA
Many oils contain a 2-ethyhexyl adipate (di-ester) for seal swell, but that doesn't count as a base oil; the percentage is so low that you have to count it as an additive.
 
Messages
30
Location
Pacific NW
quote:
The 100% synthetic oils you see (like Motul), are made from the less expensive, diester basestocks.
So, does that imply that oils constructed like Motul are better or worse, or just follow a different philosophy for some reason (price, effectiveness,whatever)?
 
Messages
4,478
Location
Southern California
quote:
Originally posted by Sin City: Molakule, where did you hear that Castrol Syntec is group III and II? I thought that Castrol Syntec was group III with a little group V mixed in.
I'm baffled by that statement, too. Regardless of the debate over whether Group IIIs are rightfully true synthetics, how could the claim be made that any motor oil is legally a "Full Synthetic" if Group II base stocks are blended in? (I just tried to access Castrol's web site to verify whether the company still blended in esters as an antiwear ingredient. The site's obviously undergone a complete revamp since I last visited. The Castrol site's now a model of complete non-information vs. the read-between-the-lines-techno-ambiguity it formerly provided. (When lawyers write ad copy, the results are a disaster!) Perhaps I'm being overly harsh, but I'm beginning to regard Castrol with the same disdain usually reserved for Fram on this site - both companies may actually market good products, but no rational person could draw that conclusion from the information(?) the respective companies provide to inquiring consumers on the internet. Oh, well, as one lawyer once told me, "Without physical or strong circumstantial evidence, you can't be convicted for what you don't say.")
 

bcrl

Thread starter
Messages
14
Location
Vancouver
quote:
So, does that imply that oils constructed like Motul are better or worse, or just follow a different philosophy for some reason (price, effectiveness,whatever)?
Any answer?
 
Top