Purolator tears still an issue?

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Bottom line: a couple filters tore under questionable circumstances....

A couple? A couple what? A couple dozen?

Even if there were only a couple, I'd still be skeptical of Purolator's quality control. That type of failure indicates to me there is a mechanism for a failure, and I'd rather not have that type of failure.

 

[JerryBob]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: skaughtz
So I've been reading through all of the posts in the multiple threads on this topic and as someone new to this discussion here are my 2 cents on it, for what that's worth...

A lesson in quantitative statistical analysis would be well applied to this topic. To put it simply, nothing here validates a claim that Purolators tear more than any other filter. The sample size is absurdly low and ridiculously skewed. No one is cutting open and checking Mobil 1, Wix, K&N, etc., filters with either the same frequency or fervor as Purolator filters, and as such no statistically significant claim can be made that the latter tear more often.


LoL ... there are plenty of other brand of oil filters cut open here to get a decent sampling for failures, and there are basically ZERO tears in any other filter brands except Purolators (or made by Purolator filters).

One exception is the Super Tech, ecore design, that was out there a few years ago that also tore media because of wide pleat spacing and too open of a plastic center tube.

And please explain to everyone that there were ZERO reported Purolator filters with tears until about a year ago. What are the "statistical chances" that there were no reported tears for 10 years, then "bang", there where over 60 reported. Doesn't take a statistical genius to see there was something that changed that caused a reliability problem.


I think this pretty much states what I think, although articulated much better. It's a "where there's smoke, there's fire" kinda thing.

 

[Tony10s]

Originally Posted By: skaughtz
So I've been reading through all of the posts in the multiple threads on this topic and as someone new to this discussion here are my 2 cents on it, for what that's worth...

A lesson in quantitative statistical analysis would be well applied to this topic. To put it simply, nothing here validates a claim that Purolators tear more than any other filter. The sample size is absurdly low and ridiculously skewed. No one is cutting open and checking Mobil 1, Wix, K&N, etc., filters with either the same frequency or fervor as Purolator filters, and as such no statistically significant claim can be made that the latter tear more often. Only a gut feeling. Nor are any variables controlled in any way (unless OCIs, oil type, driving conditions, etc. are agreed to have no direct effect on filter condition). For all we know, issues such as those being observed could be an acceptable and predicted rate of occurrence for every 1 in 100, 1,000 or 10,000 filters of any brand. Does it appear to be a disturbing trend? Absolutely. Is it correct to say that a trend exists? Absolutely not. Further, 99.9% of Purolator buyers/users would likely never know even if an issue did exist, so it makes no sense to me for the company to publicly acknowledge the claims of a few people from a web forum (no offense intended... I was only clued in by an Amazon review mentioning that the topic existed on BITOG... as I was going to buy another PureOne for my next oil change).

What I do believe, however, is that this is a potential headache that I don't have the patience for and that ignorance is bliss. And who has time for all of that math? So I will be spending the extra $4 for Mobil 1 filters for my next oil changes until people start dissecting them and find issues that I am currently unaware of. Then I guess I'll just try to screw a sponge or a coffee filter or something onto my car instead.


Good post skaughtz .... enjoyed reading it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jk_636

I already said that I agree with him (read your quote again)


Yeah, I know ... that's why there are now 3 members of "all" vs. just 2.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
So we blamed the media, but that was debunked since all filters Don't fail.


If you'd keep up with all this, it's been said many times by many members that it's most likely 3 factor formula that causes the failures. The two most prominent are the brittle media in conjunction with very widely spaced pleats with a large V-spread. The force of the oil pushing on those particular pleats causes too much side stress at the ends where those pleats are potted into the end cap, and the result is that the brittle media ends up tearing. The 3rd and weakest factor is the usage of the filter over the OCI. Of course filters used during a cold harsh winter (thick oil) have to withstand more delta-p than those in the summer time.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Bottom line: a couple filters tore under questionable circumstances, the BITOG community over reacted, now things are fine and people are starting to realize there is no cause for panic.


I like how you always try to down play it ... "a couple". I wouldn't call 60+ a "couple".

And just who are these people who "are stating to realize there is no cause for panic."? You think those so called people are out buying Purolators for their next oil change?

 

[Stewie]

Oh yeah purolators never tear is the frampire in BITOG that make people believe that they have torn by ripping the media apart before posting pictures.

You will soon realize that people don't cut their canister filters open yet they put in some review without facts (CUTTING CANISTER OPEN) and review filter media for tears, uneven pleats or damage.

 

[Nate1979]

Well lets see. There have been over 60 failures, many with multiple tears. All the tears follow a similiar pattern of tearing near the crimp. During that same time there have been barely a handful of failures of all the other brands - they are very rare. There have been hundreds of cut open filters here in the last year.

Tearolator earned their nickname.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Tearolator earned their nickname.


+1 ... truth.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Stewie
Oh yeah purolators never tear is the frampire in BITOG that make people believe that they have torn by ripping the media apart before posting pictures.

Maybe those tears are from Frampires biting into the media. Could explain why there is a tear on both sides of the seam. LoL

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Oh man...my ex-Wife shaved her head.

Ed

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: jk_636
So we blamed the media, but that was debunked since all filters
Don't fail.


The media is a part of the filter. It is like having the engine in you car fail and claiming success for a "good car".


Originally Posted By: jk_636
Then we blamed the model numbers, but that didn't hold up either.


Failures by model type
14610 13
10241 11
14459 8
14460 5
20195 5
12222 2
14006 2
24651 3
10111 2
14477 1
24011 1
25247 1
25288 2
30001 1

Yes, no pattern here. Just three filter models account for 50% of the failures. And if you say it is "only 3"... those three filters have a wide application for Honda/Toyota and a lot of other mass-market models.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Then it was because only those that we're newly manufactured were defective. No dice.


Median date for filter failures (half before this date, half after) is March 7, 2013. Considering the supply chain, failures reported as early as 2009 and as late as 2014, this was not just a bad shift, or a bad week, this was a systemic failure going on for YEARS. We could still see new failures as 2015 make should now just be hitting the shelves (and we have to wait for folks to rack up the miles).

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Oh I know, let's blame the parent company, who happens to be one of Europes lead producers of high quality filters, they just screw the Americans and give
Them sub par products! (no one is buying that either.)


PureOne 28
Classic 17
Bosch 7
Motorcraft 3
Mann 2

Looks like it is across the family.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Bottom line: a couple filters tore under questionable circumstances, the BITOG community over reacted, now things are fine and people are starting to realize there is no cause for panic.


60+ filters by multiple users with an average run-time of 5,300mi and a median of 5,000 miles with reported failures at 1,300 miles, 3,000 miles, 5,000 miles. This is not questionable circumstances, rather everyday use. These are not filters being stretched to the limits of technology ... heck, not even being stretched to the limits of bargain-priced conventional. These are filters failing in "easy" service routines and giving up early.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Don't worry folks, the sky is NOT falling.


No but Purolators are tearing.

Originally Posted By: jk_636
Keep calm and BUY A DIFFERENT BRAND OF FILTER

^ Fixed it for you

 

[goodtimes]

"Purolator tears still an issue?"

Not for those seeing facts. The thrift stores should be getting more of them. I have two filters here that are going, poor things.

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Well lets see. There have been over 60 failures, many with multiple tears. All the tears follow a similiar pattern of tearing near the crimp. During that same time there have been barely a handful of failures of all the other brands - they are very rare. There have been hundreds of cut open filters here in the last year.

Tearolator earned their nickname.


All those attributed tears are actually just amateur backyard tribologists damaging the media while opening them "near the crimp."

 

[Garak]

It's all because BITOGers use a guillotine when opening Purolators, and are more careful with every other manufacturers' filters.

 

[WobblyElvis]

Three years ago I bought a car that uses a cartridge style filter. I have used a variety of filters and examined each one when removed after use. 1X Bosch,1X Fram,1X Mobile,1X AC Delco and 2X Purolator. Two filters failed with holes in the media, they were both Purolators. The last Purolator was removed February of this year.

I don't use Purolator filters any more.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Well lets see. There have been over 60 failures, many with multiple tears. All the tears follow a similiar pattern of tearing near the crimp. During that same time there have been barely a handful of failures of all the other brands - they are very rare. There have been hundreds of cut open filters here in the last year.

Tearolator earned their nickname.


All those attributed tears are actually just amateur backyard tribologists damaging the media while opening them "near the crimp."


Only a misconception by amateur forum users trying to defy logic. In a world of winners and losers, there are some folks that DNF.

To tear the filter, you would have to saw through the label as there is about 1cm between the baseplate, the metal endcap, and the media. As my blurry photo indicates.

Worse, tears are found at both ends of the filter... because BOTH pleats on both sides of the seam along with each end of the filter have been found torn.

 

[SlipperyPete]

Originally Posted By: sayjac

As I thought, no constructive/substantive response, your MO.

Lots of pm's here regarding now lead troll status.

Carry on.


Just an amatuer analysis of possible causes of your inconsistent responses to similar information. It breaks my heart that you didn't find it interesting.

You were crying a little when you typed that, weren't you?

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Only a misconception by amateur forum users trying to defy logic. In a world of winners and losers, there are some folks that DNF.


Originally Posted By: k1rod

In the photos you will see some groves cut in the filtering media and a burn mark or two on the metal end caps. This was where my grinder went a little too deep.


You can eat your humble sandwich any day friend.

 

[goodtimes]

Tearing is only an issue for two people here. The rest have resolved the issue. I don't know if Mann group is publicly traded, so any recall would hurt their price, but my stereotypes about German arrogance, manufacturing efficiency obsession, and high concern for profit rises again.
Here's what they should do. Pull the entire line classic to D+ and get the medias redesigned. This time test the media better. Offer free replacements old for new for one year, and guarantee the new filters in writing.