Pulling The Break-In oil

[Rexer]

I have done the searches. I have read everything I could from here and other sites. I e-mailed Terry for his advice, no reply yet. And that's fine. But I am chomping at the bit here. Just got a new, Best in Class, again, Honda Odyssey. Yeah, the one with that 3.5L that dumps copper for 20k miles +. The one with the high moly VOA's. And yes the one with the supposed patch on the transmission problem from the last model. I am coming up on 600 miles, the green light from Honda to stop babying it, and I want to know what I should do here. Honda says keep the original 5W-20 in there for (cough) 3750 miles.

Here's what I am considering:

(1) Pull the factory oil and filter at 600 miles and replace with Havoline 5W-20 or better dino??? with high moly content and an M1 filter and run it out to 1600 miles and repeat to the 3200 mile mark. At 3200 go synthetic, with shorter than normal DI's to 20k miles.

(2) Leave the factory oil in and replace original Honda (Fram) filter with M1 at 600 miles and take this combination out to 1600 miles. Then go with the Hav.-M1 combination from above to 3200 miles. Then full syn. w/ shorter DI.

(3) Or, replce the filter at 600, take the original batch of factory oil to 1600 and then go full syn. with the short DI's to 20K.

(4) Or, of course my favorite idea, ditch it all now and go GC with an oversized Napa Gold/WIX till the fat lady sings.

(5) Your Entry Here


ThanX


pull the trigger and pull the break-in oil in our new Honda Odyssey

 

[ARB1977]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rexer:
I have done the searches. I have read everything I could from here and other sites. I e-mailed Terry for his advice, no reply yet. And that's fine. But I am chomping at the bit here. Just got a new, Best in Class, again, Honda Odyssey. Yeah, the one with that 3.5L that dumps copper for 20k miles +. The one with the high moly VOA's. And yes the one with the supposed patch on the transmission problem from the last model. I am coming up on 600 miles, the green light from Honda to stop babying it, and I want to know what I should do here. Honda says keep the original 5W-20 in there for (cough) 3750 miles.

Here's what I am considering:

(1) Pull the factory oil and filter at 600 miles and replace with Havoline 5W-20 or better dino??? with high moly content and an M1 filter and run it out to 1600 miles and repeat to the 3200 mile mark. At 3200 go synthetic, with shorter than normal DI's to 20k miles.

(2) Leave the factory oil in and replace original Honda (Fram) filter with M1 at 600 miles and take this combination out to 1600 miles. Then go with the Hav.-M1 combination from above to 3200 miles. Then full syn. w/ shorter DI.

(3) Or, replce the filter at 600, take the original batch of factory oil to 1600 and then go full syn. with the short DI's to 20K.

(4) Or, of course my favorite idea, ditch it all now and go GC with an oversized Napa Gold/WIX till the fat lady sings.

(5) Your Entry Here


ThanX


pull the trigger and pull the break-in oil in our new Honda Odyssey

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On my 2002 Tacoma i kept the original oil in for 5K and now with 47K it hasnt burned any oil. For the first 1K i babied it and after that i drove it normal. Changing the oil after 600 miles to me would be a waste unless your running new gears in a differental.

 

[Ugly3]

Why not do something silly like do what the manual says?

 

[cyclic]

You shoudl leave the factory fill in, I left mine until 5k kms. There was a bulletin out advising dealerships to stress to customers to leave the factory fill in for the full go which was 8k kms for me, I met them around halfway and dumped it at 5k kms.

If there wa sa bulletin out I'd suggest there is good reason for it.

 

[Silver02ex]

I got rid of my factory fill at 3000 miles, on my 02 Civic.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Check out the UOA forum on someone with the same engine as yours and their Factory fill UOA.

Honda 3.5 ltr v6 UOA

On my Dads VUE (same engine as yours) we pulled the oil around 800-1000 miles. Put in Pennzoil 5w-20 and Supertech filter on.

Ran that till 3k. Changed oil and filter again with same as above.


He ran across the HOT country for hours upon hours on vacation and after 3k miles, No oil used and the color of the oil on the blotter paper matches the new oil in the bottle.

I'm impressed.

So, I'd go 1k miles with a filter using a good oil. Then do it again at 3-4k and once you've got 7-10k, if you want too, put your Syn in it.

Oil is cheap. Even at retail compaired to the engine IMO...

My 3 cents...

Enjoy the new rig! Nice one at that!

Bill

 

[edvanp]

My vote is for #2. Run it out to 1600 miles, change/refill w/ Dino for 3k miles, then make the switch to Synthetic after that.

 

[Eddie]

I agree with UGLY3. Why mess with the engineers recomendations just to be different? Changing out the heavly dosed factory oil too early probably will do more harm than anything I've read so far on this thread. JMHO. ed

 

[H20024.6L]

I have a 2004 Acura TL 3.2 and here is my experience; changed out factory fill at 3,300 and tested. No surprise it was very high in copper (148) and iron (26). It was recommended to me to conduct 2 short changes and then run longer. I ran one change for 3,500 and another for 3,400 and retested. Copper was reduced (148 - 27) and iron (25 - 6). The UOA is posted on the site (March). My next run was 6,500 miles and the sample was also sent to Terry last week, don't have the results yet. Anxious to see them. BTW, I did not use an oil high in moly (Amsoil 5-20). Just my opinion, good luck...

 

[Winston]

No benefit in babying a new engine.

Go to 5k miles with factory fill oil and filter then change to Redline 5W20 with a Mobil 1 filter. 7500k OCI from then on out.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by Eddie:
...Why mess with the engineers recomendations just to be different? Changing out the heavly dosed factory oil too early probably will do more harm than anything I've read so far on this thread.

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Hmmm... Honda's engineers work for (let's see... Rats! - I knew I had this information somewhere...), Oh yeah, HONDA! And, Honda likes to sell new cars. Could there possibly be some obscure tie-in here about leaving the factory-fill oil in longer than the first 1,000 miles?

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

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Originally posted by Eddie:
...Why mess with the engineers recomendations just to be different? Changing out the heavly dosed factory oil too early probably will do more harm than anything I've read so far on this thread.

---

Hmmm... Honda's engineers work for (let's see... Rats! - I knew I had this information somewhere...), Oh yeah, HONDA! And, Honda likes to sell new cars. Could there possibly be some obscure tie-in here about leaving the factory-fill oil in longer than the first 1,000 miles?

---

When I go to a football game I worry that when the team is in the huddle they are talking about me. I am not paranoid! I'm not I tell you.

 

[Vortec_4300]

Using some critical judgement is probably a good idea.

I have a 4.3 liter pushrod engine based on a 50 year old GM design. There could not be any conceivable reason to leave in the factory fill beyond 1,500 miles (which is why I didn't) so I am in a different boat than say, someone with a cutting-edge 2.4 liter Honda V-Tec which might benefit greatly from an extended period of breaking-in with a sophisticated and highly-tailored factory fill.

Just my $.02

 

[marco246]

I'm with Ugly & Ed: Do whut de man say. Then put in M1 5W-20, a good oil filter, and get on with life.

 

[Bill in Utah]

quote:

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A sophisticated and highly-tailored factory fill.

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From any car mfg...

Thank goodness we all can do what we want to do with our cars.

IMO, I'll spend the $10 and get it out early.

And I'll get many trouble free miles on my outfits if the mfg designed the engine and rest of the car right. (unlike my last car...

)

Wait! Maybe the reason for it eating headgaskets @ 64k and 108k miles was because I changed the oil early???

Keep the oil in till 10k miles. (using ANY oil!) It's what Honda wants... They know better!

(or is it 20k miles? oh, change the filter at 20k and the oil at 10k...)

Go for it!

Cheers, Bill

 

[IslaVistaMan]

I'd change the oil now, Rexer. The high moly content that is often seen in so-called "break-in" oils are because of moly-oil assembly lube that's used when motors are put together. Typically, this is a mix of 25% molybdenum disulfide grease (like Honda's Moly Paste 60) and 75% engine oil.

The reason for the assembly lube is easy to understand. Dry engine parts get scored and scuffed when a motor is assembled -- and also when the engine is first run on the factory test stand. Moreover, on a factory line there's no time to coddle the build process, and the lube becomes a form of insurance at the point of assembly. It's a very inexpensive form of insurance, and one that does its job well.

Honda actually specs a moly-oil lube be used when doing valvetrain and other major work on their motorcycles. I'm sure they do the same thing with their cars at the factory. I don't have a Honda car service manual in front of me, but I'd be willing to bet that some form of "assembly lube" is called out during certain maintenance procedures. I know for a fact that it is for their bikes.

Special break-in oil is a myth. In my thinking, the reason dealers insist on leaving the oil in the engine until the first scheduled oil change is purely for marketing reasons -- lower maintenance costs, improved perceived reliability and customer satisfaction.

The fact that oversized factory filters are often mounted on engines freshly built just tells me that even with all the moly in a new engine, there's still going to be wear. That those filters are (probably) large enough to get the job done until the first change out is fortunate, but the average buyer rarely notices them anyway. Unless he's a BITOGER, that is....

FWIW, my opinion only.

 

[Eddie]

If the assembly lub (moly and?) is how the manufacture gets the moly and what else into the breakin oil then the factory oil is dosed and it shows on the UOA. That just confermes the fact that the factory oil is dosed (by whatever means) and we should follow the factory engineers recomendations.

 

[forcedtalon]

I would leave it in untill about 2000 miles but leave the original filter on . There are very fine metal particals that float around in the oil that the oil filter doesnt catch so you what to get that out bearings dont like it. I would also go with the Havoline and change it again at 5000 miles with the filter then switch to synthetic if you want.
The machining done these days is very good and is not like the old days so break in happens very quickly. The fourth time the engine is brought to temp its broken in.

 

[TonyMazz]

Just purchased 2 new vehicles 05' Equinox and 04' Tahoe, both engines came with factory dino oil.

Based on a GM engine designer's advice and other techs, I removed the factory oil at 1000 miles.

Replaced with new Dino oil, AC-Delco filter, reset the Oil Life Monitor and will be good to go for several thousand miles.

I learned that the factory fill DOES have some "debris" that we want to remove..though not very signicant, it COULD create problems i.e. scoring walls, bearings etc...

Nothing to mess with so I pulled at 1K.

Typically, I keep my vehicles for 150-175K I want to make sure I treat these motors right again from the start.

I may change my oil again soon just to make sure that I pull all debris though..just-n-case..

But I will no longer do 3K OCI that seems to be a big waste of money....

[ July 22, 2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Steve S]

Don"t forget the differentials and trans.