I watch a lot of car reviews and frequent a lot of online forums and it amazes me people still confuse eCVTs for CVTs. It especially amazes me when a car reviewer from a well known channel/company makes this mistake. They are completely different animals with eCVTs being some of the most dependable transmissions you can buy and CVTs being some the least dependable transmissions you can buy.
PSA - eCVTs are NOT the same as belt or chain-driven CVTs
- Thread starter PWMDMD
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It amazes me that people still say CVT's in general are unreliable when they are in fact not when properly maintained, even JATCO has improved on reliability.
People go 100,000-150,000 miles without servicing a CVT and it fails then complain about reliability.
People go 100,000-150,000 miles without servicing a CVT and it fails then complain about reliability.
The Nissan / JATCO CVT Fiasco was partially due to insufficient cooling & maintenance recommendations but the big contributor was TCU firmware that was running the CVT to self destruct. If not for these firmware issues I'm sure CVTs would have a much better reputation.
I'm fine with my cvts. I've ran 3 of them well over 100K with no issues and just drove my oldest one (18 rogue) from Ohio to Rhode Island doing 80 without a hiccup. I did have 1 start whining @ 95K before I knew how important servicing them was, actually lied to by the dealer that it wasn't needed. My daughters outrageously over priced buick enclave had the transmission let go between Ohio and Chicago with my 3 yr old granddaughter setting along the turnpike @ 80K. Of course, she didn't have it serviced because the dealer never told her to. All trannies are prone to failure at some point.
People do that because manufacturers tell them they are designed to that unless you tow. Many Toyota eCVTs go 300-400k miles with no service with absolutely no problems.
Personally, I do every 30k miles on the two CVTs I own. We'll see if they last.
Care to elaborate on this? I used to work for Nissan, and remember the Murano launch. CVT's failing like crazy, and a team of engineers visited every vehicle. Second year, the situation greatly improved. There were firmware improvements, but most of these were related to making sure the belt was always in compression, never slack. This built confidence for the full-scale adoption of CVT's.
One of the often parroted recommendations with regard to CVTs is to change the fluid often. This never hurts, but it doesn't turn an unreliable transmission into a good one instead.
I like conventional transmissionmissions.
I also like CVTs.
It just depends on the application.
What I do not like, are CVTs tuned to imitate a conventional transmission.
I also like CVTs.
It just depends on the application.
What I do not like, are CVTs tuned to imitate a conventional transmission.
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Manufacturers have been doing "lifetime" fluids for a long time now, lifetime means the lifetime of the transmission, when they fail its outside of warranty and on you the consumer.
People need to use their brains and not fall for "lifetime" fluid nonsense and have them serviced anyway.
Agree!
My Civic has a CVT, and it works really well in almost all situations. When Honda brought out the 11th gen Civic, they tuned the CVT for fake shifts. Those cars are slower than the 10th gens, even though the drivetrains were identical. Honda also has tuned their new hybrids to simulate shifts as well. What are they thinking? The new Prelude, which has this approach, is a fair bit slower than the hybrid Civic, which doesn't, or at least not to the same extent.
What? That's poop information and you came here to preach us something?? Dunno understand man.
In 2009 I think you are correct, but now you can't really generalize that any type of automatic is more reliable than the others. If you are ever bored, have a look at used transmission prices on car-part.com There are some surprises there on which transmissions are in demand which ones aren't.
The Prius geared planetary CVT's are very good, with almost no demand for used ones, but Ford's early attempts to use Toyota's transmission failed at many times the rate of many of the belt/chain CVT's...
I find my Outback's transmission prices are about the same as a conventional RAV4 transmission of the same year? Oddly enough some years of Impreza/Crosstrek CVT are priced the same as a Prius, at a few hundred dollars!
Also I was reading the reviews on the planetary eCVT in the Forester and the main difference was that the regular CVT was quicker and the fake shift points make it a more pleasant drive, than hearing the drone of the constant rpms the eCVT uses, for maximum efficiency. That is personal preference of course.
I really loved how my 2013 Maxima was set up with the CVT, it made the car so responsive and too much fun when the pedal was flexed.
My QX60 CVT is just boring, does the job and never really seems to seek attention, I guess that's desired for a heavy SUV that is for average driving without trying to be a sports car. However they have set the TCU it seems to give good gas consumption with excellent passing power when needed. As a BITOG'r in good standing, I maintain all my CVT's with pre-emptive service.
I drove manual transmissions for years, my wife too, and we don't miss them, especially when stuck in traffic. I do understand that the new ECVT's are amazing and should be loved by all for their design and capability to live longer than everything else -manuals, automatic multispeed, or CVT.
My QX60 CVT is just boring, does the job and never really seems to seek attention, I guess that's desired for a heavy SUV that is for average driving without trying to be a sports car. However they have set the TCU it seems to give good gas consumption with excellent passing power when needed. As a BITOG'r in good standing, I maintain all my CVT's with pre-emptive service.
I drove manual transmissions for years, my wife too, and we don't miss them, especially when stuck in traffic. I do understand that the new ECVT's are amazing and should be loved by all for their design and capability to live longer than everything else -manuals, automatic multispeed, or CVT.
The new Prelude only has 200hp as well which numerous reviewers point out as well.
Honda is sharing the same basic hybrid power system between the Prelude, CRV, and Civic. To my knowledge, other than CRV 4WD option, they are all similar, with the software tuning being the big variable.
Not going to start an argument with you but why did Nissan leave out the transmissionmission cooler on the 08-13 Rogue when the rest of the world had it installed standard?
And when you see many of the 08-13 Rogues CVT failures were in the US Market. And those US-Market Rogues were without transmissionmission coolers, it backs up the idea that overheating was definitely a cause of transmissionmission failure. And fluid changes were necessary because the fluid was always being cooked. And Nissan never said to replace the fluid not every 30k miles.
How do I know? I had first hand experience with a 13 Rogue that went into LIMP mode for the transmission because it couldn't handle the heat during the summer. Yes the transmission fluid was changed but it needed that transmissionmission cooler..
Which.. Nissan silently made available a kit later on (after the failures) to retrofit what was missing on US destined Rogues. Amazing how after that no more issues. So to say they greatly improved, was only after they realized bean counting that transmissionmission on the Rogue (during the Ghosn years) was a bad idea. Not to mention the CVT fluid being cooked and needing to be replaced before the damage was done internally.
Maybe Nissan screwed up? Not unusual, really. Not sure what this has to do with firmware, though. Ghosn is the type of guy to challenge people, including engineers. He didn't get involved with decisions on whether or not to include an oil cooler for the US market. He may challenge the engineers to take out cost, and after that, if the engineers make a bad decision, they make a bad decision. Stuff happens.
Funny thing is the Murano cross cabriolet was put into development by him. His wife demanded a convertible so he made it so at a large expense to Nissan.
My Nissan tech who I rarely have to use, thank goodness. Told me that prior to 2018 he was doing 1 a week. After that it dropped to 1 a month and now is a rarity. They extended my 2018 rogue warranty on the cvt which got me excited for nothing. I had a 21 kicks rental in Louisiana a few years back in august that had almost 80k on it, which how it was still in service is beyond me, but it was a small airport. Surprisingly, it handled the 700 miles and crazy heat I put it through. The tires were out of balance and it creaked like an old ship, but the drivetrain was fine. I had an 07 impala that soured me on gm after the 2nd transmission started going out @ 100k and burned oil like an old Studebaker
The Sienna has an eCVT (as you stated not an actual one) and the Malibu has a true CVT. Both take some getting used to and have their strengths and weaknesses. Both make the driving experience somewhat dull which is on par with a minivan and sensible mid sized sedan. Both have been reliable to date. I do like how CVTs keep the RPMs in the high power band when accelerating especially with the turbo. I feel like both the GM 1.5T and Toyota 2.5 NA can punch above their weight class with regard to power and that’s in part due to the transmissions. Have owned a Sentra with a 2.5L and Civic with a 1.5L before and now have basically the same displacements in a minivan and much larger sedan. Wild to think about.
Here are some of the relevant points but I don't have time to verify all the details right now:
- result of the class action lawsuits against Nissan was a non-admission of fault and a warranty extension to 10 years & extended miles / kms
- there are many TSBs regarding CVT troublshooting that evolved in time, from fluid / filter change to rebuild to replacing the valve body to replacing the whole CVT
- the TSBs (at some point) reference that the TCU needs to be updated
- our CVT failed at ~ 7 years and was replaced at a Nissan dealer
- I started servicing the CVT / fluid at ~ 9 years (2 years on new CVT), fluids used were "OEM" CVT (not from Nissan), Valvoline MaxLife, MotoMaster CVT, Amsoil CVT
- over the last 3 years I've been using the $5 CVTz50 app to monitor CVT temps / values
- I discovered how to check / verify TCU firmware using the app and Nissan tech site, our firmware was still original (2010)
- contacted 10+ dealers in my area about firmware update and had response of: $200-$600 / "we do not recommend" / "will not correct any problems" / "why would you want to do that"
- using the Nissan tech site was able to identify compatible TCU numbers that required no updates, found one on ebay for $100, purchased & installed
- noticed on CVTz50 that our minimum SEC Pressure (secondary circuit, hydraulic pressure) was now 0.35MPa while cruising hot whereas on the old 2010 TCUs (I have two) it would drop to 0.25MPa and that's when "slipping" would start to occur
- I believe the slipping is due to insufficient secondary pressure (possibly from the lockup clutch, could be fwd, lockup, or belt slipping)
- the purpose of minimizing the secondary circuit hydraulic pressure is part of the energy saving strategy, as is the the use of a CVT fluid warmer, you can read about this in JATCO tech reports
- we have not experienced any slipping since the TCU replacement
- Nissan implemented CVT fluid warmers in most (all?) of their CVT equipped vehicles but very few had a cooler or cooler option
- our CVT will reliably "overheat" during summer weather and long trips, this causes the "deterioration" count in the TCU to increase once the fluid exceeds 89C
- Nissan flew too close to the sun by minimizing hydraulic pressure to improve fuel economy, minimizing the need for CVT fluid change / service, and not providing proper overheat protection
- Nissan "did no wrong" but did offer extended warrany replacements, unfortuneately our dealer neglected to update the TCU at that time
That being said, I'm due for a CVT service now and this will be the first one since the TCU update along with the use of Amsoil CVT fluid and extra magnets in the pan. Hopefully I'll have a post up about this in the coming weeks.
