Proposal for Regulations on Brake Rotors

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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
That's not the full scope of the "free market" deal. Given enough of a price advantage cheaper stuff just runs the "standard" (good) out of business. Then the standard becomes substandard. I've watched it with belts. 75% the life for 50% the cost. Downgrade from there until you've found a manufacturer that can't make it any cheaper in any way. You never return to the highest quality level, at least on a mass availability scale.

I'm not sure we're arguing on the same point.

All I'm saying is, it'd be good to have a minimum standard to prevent rotors from being sold that will warp or crack instantly.


Does it matter if the defect is in manufacture or design? Faulty fake rotors or fake alleged real rotors? Some are selling substandard rotors. This pushes legit manufacturers out of business ..leaving only cheaper and less legit rotors in availability. This means that an even cheaper and less legit rotor will attempt to dethrone that lower standard ..and make it standard.
 
No thanks...

Why do we have cheap [censored] $20 rotors now?

Because thats what the market WANTS!

No one wants the $119 rotors. Thats why there are no rotors made here anymore.

Everything the US fed-gov touches turns to [censored]. They need to get their dirty little fingers OUT of more businesses... not in.
 
That doesn't make much sense to me. I've gotten good American made rotors for well under $50 before. Besides we have regulations on tires and that doesn't stop the market from carrying less expensive Chinese tires that have to meet DOT specs.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Does it matter if the defect is in manufacture or design? Faulty fake rotors or fake alleged real rotors? Some are selling substandard rotors. This pushes legit manufacturers out of business ..leaving only cheaper and less legit rotors in availability. This means that an even cheaper and less legit rotor will attempt to dethrone that lower standard ..and make it standard.

I don't see your point. If there is a regulation, then it can play out one of two ways:

1. The regulation prohibits the sale of any rotor that isn't up to spec. If this is a design defect, the rotor won't be certified and it will be illegal to sell. If it is a manufacturing defect, it will be discovered through random sampling of retail products and/or incidents due to the defects, and the company will be fined and possibly sued.

2. The regulation is merely a voluntary opt-in sort of deal, or else any non-certified rotor will have to be marked with "for off-road use only" or something. In that case, it won't be any worse than it is now; we'll just have a way to tell which rotors are potentially dangerous and which are not.

I don't see how either scenario will encourage cheapening of the market.
 
Fair point. Should have been more careful with my choice of words. The way you described it is how I meant it.
 
Whoever has the money, payoffs, and clout, can get their products certified.
Just like drugs or oils that need certification.
Is is worth it for some companies? Not for all - they don't have deep enough pockets to play ball with our Gov't.

BTW, there already is a brake rotor standard for cast iron.
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
BTW, there already is a brake rotor standard for cast iron.

I've seen it when I worked for Chrysler... and it's not rocket science.

benjamming, specifications such as brake rotor material are typically company-specific, and not some broad specification universally available to everyone.
 
I've had good american and canadian rotors, and I've had bad ones. I've had good chinese rotors, and bad ones.

Its a total [censored].

This proposal doesn't make sense. Why would they stop at brake rotors? What about control arms, ball joints, suspension parts, or other mission critical parts that are provided in the aftermarket?

Rotors have become a disposable item. Gone are the days of turning rotors (except in heavy duty applications).
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Does it matter if the defect is in manufacture or design? Faulty fake rotors or fake alleged real rotors? Some are selling substandard rotors. This pushes legit manufacturers out of business ..leaving only cheaper and less legit rotors in availability. This means that an even cheaper and less legit rotor will attempt to dethrone that lower standard ..and make it standard.

I don't see your point. If there is a regulation, then it can play out one of two ways:

1. The regulation prohibits the sale of any rotor that isn't up to spec. If this is a design defect, the rotor won't be certified and it will be illegal to sell. If it is a manufacturing defect, it will be discovered through random sampling of retail products and/or incidents due to the defects, and the company will be fined and possibly sued.

2. The regulation is merely a voluntary opt-in sort of deal, or else any non-certified rotor will have to be marked with "for off-road use only" or something. In that case, it won't be any worse than it is now; we'll just have a way to tell which rotors are potentially dangerous and which are not.

I don't see how either scenario will encourage cheapening of the market.


By your post here ..I don't think we're in disagreement ..but it's obvious that we're on somewhat different pages.
 
Originally Posted By: CrAlt
No thanks...

Why do we have cheap [censored] $20 rotors now?

Because thats what the market WANTS!

No one wants the $119 rotors. Thats why there are no rotors made here anymore.

Everything the US fed-gov touches turns to [censored]. They need to get their dirty little fingers OUT of more businesses... not in.


Not completely true. It assumes that someone can afford $119 rotors and chose $19 rotors instead.


Market rotor offerings:

Rotors you can only buy if you can afford to have standards in your life.

Rotors that your pathetic meaningless existence affords you.

It's as slanted as stating that acceptance is DEMAND. Cheaper products are only in demand where there are needs of poorer people. It doesn't drive down the high quality products in price. It, instead, merely shrinks their market share to only the current (and shrinking) crop of those who can afford them ..to the point of their elimination from the market entirely.
 
The problem is that most people shop by price. It's the Wal-Martization of the US. People want cheap, cheaper, and cheapest. Use it up and throw it out.

The problem is that this causes a vicious circle. People want cheap rotors, China provides em'. The companies that make decent rotors get priced out of the market. Said rotor company was using quality US steel, but is now out of business. Then the US steel mill closes because they don't have enough customers. Former steel workers who got paid a decent salary have to get a job at Wal-Mart. Now they can't afford to buy decent rotors anymore either, so they buy the junky ones. Wash, rinse, repeat.

There will come a time of great reckoning sometime in the future, due to economic conditions, peak oil, war, etc when we as US citizens won't be able to get cheap China junk anymore. Then we'll be REALLY hosed, because we manufacture almost nothing in the US anymore other than loads of debt and expensive niche products.

Something is about to break, I can smell it. We can't keep subsidizing garbage products and slave wages without consequences.
 
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
The problem is that most people shop by price. It's the Wal-Martization of the US. People want cheap, cheaper, and cheapest. Use it up and throw it out.

The problem is that this causes a vicious circle. People want cheap rotors, China provides em'. The companies that make decent rotors get priced out of the market. Said rotor company was using quality US steel, but is now out of business. Then the US steel mill closes because they don't have enough customers. Former steel workers who got paid a decent salary have to get a job at Wal-Mart. Now they can't afford to buy decent rotors anymore either, so they buy the junky ones. Wash, rinse, repeat.

There will come a time of great reckoning sometime in the future, due to economic conditions, peak oil, war, etc when we as US citizens won't be able to get cheap China junk anymore. Then we'll be REALLY hosed, because we manufacture almost nothing in the US anymore other than loads of debt and expensive niche products.

Something is about to break, I can smell it. We can't keep subsidizing garbage products and slave wages without consequences.


I totally agree. My sentiments exactly.
 
Originally Posted By: AcuraTech
This is what you support when you buy Made in China: MUST SEE PICTURES

Amazing pictures of pollution in China

Now HERE'S an argument not to buy from a country.

They are definitely... shall we say... unfettered by principles of environmental responsibility.
 
Originally Posted By: defektes
the key would be to ban all products not manufactured in the US/canada/germany

I'll also take Japan, Italy, the U.K., France, Spain, South Korea, Bangladesh, and pretty much all of Scandinavia.
55.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
BTW, there already is a brake rotor standard for cast iron.

I've seen it when I worked for Chrysler... and it's not rocket science.

benjamming, specifications such as brake rotor material are typically company-specific, and not some broad specification universally available to everyone.


Ah, I see. Thank you. I thought he was referring to an ASME type spec.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
They are definitely... shall we say... unfettered by principles of environmental responsibility.


What is this liberal mumbo-jumbo?
 
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