Prolonging the Inevitable - High Mileage Scooter

[ad244]

I purchased a Scooter (2009 Yamaha Zuma 125) to commute on about 6 months ago and in that time I’ve put about 2,000 miles on it and gone through all the maintenance items I can think of except for checking the valves. Recently, we had a 110 degree day which I got caught up in riding home from work in and ever since the scooter has been making some strange noises. So last night I went to change the oil and adjust the valves and I found a good amount of metal in the Oil strainer (thanks Yamaha) and the lower exhaust valve cover. Now the previous owner must have short tripped the heck out of the bike because I found some internal rust in the PCV Breather connector which I hastily cleared out best I could but this rust may have gotten cleaned out during my more routine oil changes and dumped into the engine.

Anyhow, after the valve adjustment and service its still not sounding good so, my purpose for this thread is to prolong the inevitable. Its not worth pumping a ton of money into but I would like any suggestions for prolonging the engine life. Although it is a commuter scooter it does get hot and up to temperature by the time I reach work daily. Should I keep using Synthetic 10w-40 and just ride it until it dies/ monitor the metal particles?

The Oil specs: 10w-40

Thank you all.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Not surprised. I've been telling people for a long time that for high ambient temps, any scooter air cooled engine needs a stout 50 weight oil to get by. 10/40 is fine for most climates, but not when the heat is really on.

 

[RoadRaceJosh]

Even the original maxi-scooter, the Honda Elite 250, had an oil strainer rather than a filter so don't feel like you've been short changed. I gave up the Elite not because of any mechanical failure, but because the brakes and chassis were not up to par for its 70 MPH top speed. I digress. If the thing doesn't overheat the 10W-40 is fine, but in hot weather a 20W-50 would also be fine. As there is no wet clutch I would be tempted to throw in some Liqui-Moly to maybe prolong whatever failure may or may not be around the bend.

 

[beanoil]

Total mileage?
20w50 VR-1 in that thing. A couple ounces of Liqui-Moly MoS2 if you want.
Ride it til it croaks.

 

[IndyIan]

Is this new metal in the strainer or just the first time you've looked at it? I read its also got a fan for cooling so with good oil I wouldn't think it would have a problem with those temps in normal riding? I guess if you were WO climbing a grade for 5+ minutes then it may not be happy, but these are made for mountainous south Asian climates as well.
Anyways I find these small engines pretty tough, when I was 12 I played around with the carb and leaned out my CT110 to the point it seized at top speed, but came unlocked as I skidded to a stop. Drove it home and my Dad gave me a talking too, we reset the carb and ran it for years afterwards. I can't remember if we even changed the oil after that episode....

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Not surprised. I've been telling people for a long time that for high ambient temps, any scooter air cooled engine needs a stout 50 weight oil to get by. 10/40 is fine for most climates, but not when the heat is really on.


Hi Doublewasp thanks for your post. Yep its air cooled! Obviously it got a little hot riding wide open on that one afternoon ride home. Obviously if I had known this would have caused damage I would have taken the truck. Should I try and find a 10w-50 oil? The fuel savings along with the scooter make sourcing a higher quality ($$$) more reasonable.


Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Even the original maxi-scooter, the Honda Elite 250, had an oil strainer rather than a filter so don't feel like you've been short changed. I gave up the Elite not because of any mechanical failure, but because the brakes and chassis were not up to par for its 70 MPH top speed. I digress. If the thing doesn't overheat the 10W-40 is fine, but in hot weather a 20W-50 would also be fine. As there is no wet clutch I would be tempted to throw in some Liqui-Moly to maybe prolong whatever failure may or may not be around the bend.


Hi Joshua! Your Elite sounds like a fun scooter and freeway capable. 63mph is about the end of the world for my Zuma though people do get some serious speed out of them. I had a 155cc kit on my other Zuma which was quite fun but never had any overheating issues despite not installing an aftermarket oil cooler. No wet clutch on this bike which is nice, it had 5w-40 Synthetic castrol oil I had lying around which obviously was not up to the task. It drained out of the crank case like water! - Which model of Liquimoly would you recommend?


Originally Posted By: beanoil
Total mileage?
20w50 VR-1 in that thing. A couple ounces of Liqui-Moly MoS2 if you want.
Ride it til it croaks.


Boy do I love beanoil! Thats some good smelling stuff! - Anyways back to the scooter, it has just over 15,000 hard miles. I found some rust in the PCV breather I suspect made its way into the engine circulation so it obviously was short tripped in its life. Will the MoS2 thin out the 20W-50 at all? It seems like pretty thick stuff!

Thank you all for your help

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Is this new metal in the strainer or just the first time you've looked at it? I read its also got a fan for cooling so with good oil I wouldn't think it would have a problem with those temps in normal riding? I guess if you were WO climbing a grade for 5+ minutes then it may not be happy, but these are made for mountainous south Asian climates as well.
Anyways I find these small engines pretty tough, when I was 12 I played around with the carb and leaned out my CT110 to the point it seized at top speed, but came unlocked as I skidded to a stop. Drove it home and my Dad gave me a talking too, we reset the carb and ran it for years afterwards. I can't remember if we even changed the oil after that episode....


Nope, I've checked the strainer every time that I have changed the oil. About 3 times in 2,000 miles. It had some light sludge in it before but nothing like this. However this was the first time I had checked the valves (All were very tight and ndeeded adjustment) and this says something about the maintenance history.

Those older hondas are real tanks! I had a CT70 which I rode the heck out of for a few years boy do I miss that bike. But the CVT around the city is really great to have. Besides, I have another bike to ride if I feel the need for speed.

Maybe it was just my time?Ill change this current fill in 500 miles and see what the strainer looks like.

This is the oil I used (just the 10w-40 variant)

 

[Phishin]

In these small engines, change the oil often. I change the oil in my Ruckus every 600-800 miles. And my Ruckus is liquid cooled and has an external oil cooler. I'd run a 50 weight as well.

 

[Superflan]

I guess a bearing is shot and it won’t go long before this engine stops abruptly. I would repair or make repair. I would not like to get stranded going to work or in a dangerous situation.

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted By: Phishin
In these small engines, change the oil often. I change the oil in my Ruckus every 600-800 miles. And my Ruckus is liquid cooled and has an external oil cooler. I'd run a 50 weight as well.


Absolutely, I just with the Previous Owner agreed with both of us! - Yamaha states oil changes are to be done every 2,000 miles.

 

[tomcat27]

I would use a 15-40 or 20-50

 

[Lawn_Care]

Originally Posted By: ad244
Anyways back to the scooter, it has just over 15,000 hard miles.


I've got 14,700 on my 50cc Honda Metropolitan - same liquid-cooled engine as the similar-year Ruckus.

Not hard miles, but not easy either.

I agree with the above - good oil, shot of Liqui-Moly, and run it till it croaks!

 

[ad244]

So Just a little bit of an update, thank you to all of you who commented above I appreciate your comments and help

I've been riding the scooter to work for the last few days and Im happy to say the new oil/ valve adjustment seems to have helped alot. It does not seem to make the whining noise/ whirring noise it was before so maybe the viscosity just got a little low. All 4 valves were completely tight so I suspect that they had never been adjusted. Since I adjusted them, they are making a bit more ticking but having owned several bikes and another Zuma before, It sounds pretty normal.

The plan moving forward is to change the oil early at about 500 miles and see if there continues to be any additional metal in the engine. When I drained the oil the last time, there didnt appear to be any large chunks in the drained oil (Plastic bag trick). So I am hopeful after cleaning out some of the rust that no longer will there be metal bits in the oil.

I'm still debating running something thicker than a 10w-40 such as a 20w-50. I dont want to kill any power from the little 7hp engine. Let me know your thoughts

Thank you again all

 

[Lawn_Care]

Glad to hear. Flush the oil once more, and if it's clean than you should be good from here on.

Don't worry about a 50wt, you won't notice a difference in performance and you won't have to worry about it overheating either.

 

[DoubleWasp]

My advice comes not from theory, UOA, or technical data. My advice comes from owning and having seen the insides of these engines after use.

Air cooled engines in hot climates, forced air cooled or not, have some fairly ridiculous cylinder head temps, and equally ridiculous oil temps. The thing to keep in mind is that as oil gets hotter, it also gets thinner. When the heat is on, your 10w40 essentially becomes a 20 weight. These scooters have nothing in the way of oil cooling. When an air cooled scooter is in temps of above 90°, it is quite normal for the oil to be near or above 300°. That's a whole other ballgame for engine oil.

If you dig through the service manuals, many specifically state they are not intended to be operated at WFO in extreme temps.

A good HTHS figure will go a long way to protecting your engine in the hot stuff. These engines have very small oil capacities as well. Doesn't take much to get it all hot.

 

[ad244]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
My advice comes not from theory, UOA, or technical data. My advice comes from owning and having seen the insides of these engines after use.

Air cooled engines in hot climates, forced air cooled or not, have some fairly ridiculous cylinder head temps, and equally ridiculous oil temps. The thing to keep in mind is that as oil gets hotter, it also gets thinner. When the heat is on, your 10w40 essentially becomes a 20 weight. These scooters have nothing in the way of oil cooling. When an air cooled scooter is in temps of above 90°, it is quite normal for the oil to be near or above 300°. That's a whole other ballgame for engine oil.

If you dig through the service manuals, many specifically state they are not intended to be operated at WFO in extreme temps.

A good HTHS figure will go a long way to protecting your engine in the hot stuff. These engines have very small oil capacities as well. Doesn't take much to get it all hot.


Noted! - I'll give some consideration to using a 50w engine oil. Thanks Doublewasp