Appropriate oil for Kymco Scooters

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I mentioned in this thread that I was looking to prepare a Kymco scooter for a long-distance road trip and wanted to ensure that I had a suitable oil.

The somewhat aged owners manual and shop manual I have (neither of which have a model year, and the shop manual doesn't mention a few extra parts that the 2006 model has) mention that the scooter should use API SG-spec oil in 15W-40. Of course, the SG specification is obsolete (though many motorcycle oils continue to specify it).

I was curious if using modern (SM spec at the time of writing), automotive oils (i.e. not marketed as motorcycle oils) would be suitable in a Kymco scooter, so long as the scooter does not share engine oil with the transmission. As all Kymco scooters have separate CVT transmissions and a dry clutch, it would seem that an automotive oil would be satisfactory.

To confirm this, I wrote to Kymco and received a response from Joe Wofford. As the email exchanges occasionally went on to great lengths, I've quoted only select portions of the messages. I've taken the liberty of inserting paragraph breaks to improve readability, as well as correcting minor spelling/grammar errors.

Quote:
We use a 10w 40 oil for motorcycle engines (Valvoline conventional) not necessarily for a wet clutch. This works best for us as we have many opportunities to open our engines for inspection or testing.

As long as you follow the recommended service schedule (which is a high frequency schedule) you will have no worries even in your high temperatures. There are indeed many oils to choose from and one can be a bit overwhelmed by them, but the bottom line is, these are simple engines with roller bearings rather than bushing type bearings and are designed to run moderately cool compared to multi cylinder engines. These engines are very durable because of this.

The main area of to be concerned about is in the valve and head area. The cam is on rollers, but the valves and guides are typical. Keeping them adjusted on a small engine is more vital and the cleaner the oil the better.

Though this engine does not have an actual oil filter, the pump and the reservoir is designed so that the heavy particles in the oil will settle in a chamber near the screen filter and the oil pick up for the pump is high enough and baffled by cast chambers in the case that for all practical purposes prevents the heavy particles from being recirculated by the pump. This practice has been used for many years by many manufacturers of small engines and has proven to be affective.

(...)

I will suggest the KYMCO update their printed materials to reflect new and more modern oils as you bring up a valid point about the manual.


Sounds good, and if Kymco updates their manuals, that'd be excellent. However, I wanted to be 100% sure and not read too much into his answer, so I then responded and asked for a definitive yes/no answer as to whether or not ordinary, SM-spec, xW-40 automotive oils would be suitable in these engines. I used the specific example of common Pennzoil 10W-40 in the yellow bottle, and compared it against "fancy motorcycle oils" (my words, which he repeated in his response).

He responded thusly:
Quote:
Yes, any modern (e.g. SM-spec) motor oil, conventional or synthetic, in xW-40 should provide ample protection so long as the oil is changed at the prescribed intervals. There's no need for fancy motorcycle oils like Mobil1 Racing4T. Regular Pennzoil 10W-40 in a yellow bottle would work fine. You should have no issues with any of these oils.


All right, there you have it. According to Joe, modern automotive oils of the proper weight are suitable for use in Kymco scooters.

He went on to say that he's heard that one can often run extended oil intervals on synthetic, but he has no personal experience with it, nor do they test for such things at Kymco.

Personally, I wouldn't risk extended intervals in an engine with no oil filter, no matter how good the passive gunk-collecting design of the reservoir is.
 
Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
How about HDEO oils such as Chevron Delo 15W40 ? Isn't it suitable for this scooter ?


I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be, so long as it's in the proper weight. Don't all the HD oils also meet API Sx spec (e.g. SM)?
 
If this oil selection is based on your up coming iron butt ride, here's what I'd do. You stated that your bike will be turning 7,000 rpm's at 50 mph if I'm correct. And you'll be needing to do that for 20 hrs minimum,For this ride I would go for a synthetic mc oil of 20/50 wt. It's heavier then what the book calls for, but here's why I would do it.Most motors bikes or cars, don't run that high an rpm for extended periods. Regular oil has been shown to shear down several grades when used in severe usage.Now 20 hours of 7k rpm running will beat the life out of almost any oil. Figure in the heat you may encounter,and hills and the occasional blast of higher speed to make up for time you lost along the way, you would be asking alot of a lighter weight oil in my opinion. After the ride for around town riding the 15/40 wt should do the trick.
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
If this oil selection is based on your up coming iron butt ride, here's what I'd do. You stated that your bike will be turning 7,000 rpm's at 50 mph if I'm correct. And you'll be needing to do that for 20 hrs minimum,For this ride I would go for a synthetic mc oil of 20/50 wt. It's heavier then what the book calls for, but here's why I would do it.Most motors bikes or cars, don't run that high an rpm for extended periods. Regular oil has been shown to shear down several grades when used in severe usage.Now 20 hours of 7k rpm running will beat the life out of almost any oil. Figure in the heat you may encounter,and hills and the occasional blast of higher speed to make up for time you lost along the way, you would be asking alot of a lighter weight oil in my opinion. After the ride for around town riding the 15/40 wt should do the trick.


Interesting, and something I'll consider.

That said, I'm always a stickler for following the manual's recommendations. I figure they know more about their engines than I do.

Since the CVT keeps the bike running at around 6,000-7,000rpm during normal operation (even puttering along at 35mph), I can't imagine that an extended ride of 1,000 miles would be any harder on the oil than ten 100 mile rides. Indeed, I'd suspect the continuous operation (as opposed to numerous cold starts) would be easier on it. Even so, I'm going to run a full interval (2,000km) with the M1 Racing 4T that's in there now, do a UOA, and see how it's handled that interval.

Now, if only UOAs were cheaper, I'd do them a heck of a lot more...
 
You posted the book says to change the oil at 1200 miles. I would bet that is due to the fact the oil is shot by that mileage, not because it doesn't run a filter.Heck most lawn equipment don't even have screens and they last forever. I had a Bsa years ago with the same screen for a filter and a 2500 mile oci. I really don't think the mfgr. planned on anyone riding the scooter that hard for that long when they wrote the manual.And most people just do very light crusing on scooters and can take years to reach 1k miles. You will be putting that bike thru a torture test for sure. You should start planning the coast to coast in ten days ride when your done. I'm pretty sure not too many 150 scooters have done it before.,,
 
Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
You posted the book says to change the oil at 1200 miles. I would bet that is due to the fact the oil is shot by that mileage, not because it doesn't run a filter.Heck most lawn equipment don't even have screens and they last forever. I had a Bsa years ago with the same screen for a filter and a 2500 mile oci. I really don't think the mfgr. planned on anyone riding the scooter that hard for that long when they wrote the manual.And most people just do very light crusing on scooters and can take years to reach 1k miles. You will be putting that bike thru a torture test for sure. You should start planning the coast to coast in ten days ride when your done. I'm pretty sure not too many 150 scooters have done it before.,,


As quoted above, Joe states that changing the oil every 2000km is a "high frequency schedule" -- I'm not sure if he's merely stating the obvious and saying that the oil changes called for are rather frequent, or implying that this is the "severe" schedule. The manual only has one service schedule, not a normal/severe one, so I'm not sure how to interpret it.

As for the oil wearing out, we'll see what the UOA says when it comes due...

During pleasant winters here in Arizona, I'm thinking of doing some medium-length rides to see how the oil holds up under extended operating conditions, perhaps 250 miles (I could visit my fiancee and come back). If it looks like the oil can't make it the needed distance (which I doubt, but we'll see), I can always do a quick change halfway through: I've gotten pretty fast at doing oil changes on it, and the oil will be all nice and warmed up.

I like torture-testing things, so long as they're not my primary mode of transportation (I have a bicycle and a Toyota Camry -- the scooter is just for fun and occasional outings). If it explodes, I can rebuild it cheap or insurance can kick in.

I've been thinking about the coast-to-coast thing, which would be absolutely brutal, but that seems a bit excessive now, what with my busy schedule and all.
 
Very interesting and thanks for taking the time to email the manufacturer and report this....What's hard for alot of folks to get past is the ambiguity between the SG recommendations in their manuals and the API statements that the latest ratings meet or exceed previous service categories...SM meets or exceeds the SG rating...
 
Well yeah. The Kymco doesn't have a clutch or a gearbox to worry about. I have 2 Aprilia scoots. One water cooled, one air cooled. My water pumper gets Mobil 1 TDT, 5w40. The air cooled gets Redline MC 10w40. For your application, ANY oil will be fine, but for an iron butt long distance ride, I would opt for M1 15-50. Continued high RPM use in these small motors tend to consume oil. I would want something that is on the thicker side, to minimize consumption, retain viscosity, and in the event of a cooling failure, would protect enough to get you somewhere. Plus with no filter, I want an oil film thicker than the dirt suspended in the oil. Have a great time on your ride!
 
Well I have ridden a 250 Yamaha on longer rides. Only about 500 miles a day, and have had excellent luck with 15w40 Rotella in cool weather and either Lucas Motorcycle 20w50 or Mobil V Twin 20w50 in the summer. I figure I am doing about 5700 rpm at 60MPH on it and that was in 90 plus degree weather on an air cooled engine. So far no problems and the bike has been problem free and is quiet as the day I bought it.
 
Does Kymco build some kind of special engine for their scooters? I mean is it a rotary engine or a oval-piston engine? Does it rev to 20,000 rpm? Does it have 16 cylinders? Oh, I know, it's has a gas turbine engine?

Come on folks, it's a cheap Korean "knock-off" of an earlier Japanese engine. It would run on any type of decent automobile oil you feed it. How many of you owned a Honda Trail 70 or similar with that single-cylinder engine? They would run virtually forever without even changing the oil.

TIP: Open oil bottle (any kind) pour correct amount of said oil into engine, ride away into the sunset.

When you get a really esoteric engine like those mentioned above, then you can worry about oil.
 
ZGRider: It's actually Taiwanese, but I get your point. Minor nitpick.
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I also have a Kymco scooter, with a 250cc engine. My biggest concern is the relatively high RPMs. Yes, cars can hit these RPMs but they usually only do so when doing a high-speed manuever, like passing another car. On my scooter I have sustained RPMs of around 7k at highway speeds. This is much higher than any other motorcycle I have had, much less any cars. My previous motorcycles would normally run about 4k sustained on the highway.

I have heard at least one other Kymco owner complain about foaming of his oil when he used an automotive oil. I'm thinking it is related to the RPMs. I think he said he used some version of Mobil 1 regular automotive oil. Because of these things, it gives me a little reassurance to use a diesel oil that says it has anti-foaming properties. I've used Rotella, Delvac, and Mobil 1 15W-50 oils without problem. I would try the motorcycle oils if I get any at a reasonable price, regardless of the fact that I don't have a wet clutch.

I'd like to hear some long-term results of using regular automotive oils with these scooters. The incident that I cited may have been related to some other factor than just the type of oil.

Vic
 
I have a kymco too. Been using Valvoline All Fleet Premium API CI-4/SL. I however drain the oil every 500 kms. I use this for break in. problems so far. I tried using Mobil Super XHP, It didn't perform well. There was a time that after riding for 1n hour, I opened the drain plug, I can see it smoking a lil bit. I am using motoman's break in period at that time and have been pushing the top speed meter up to 120 kph. Then I plan on switching to RP XPR. It looks very promising. What do you think?

RP XPR:
TBN: 10.8

84.2/14.4

Iron: 2

Lead: 1

Cal: 2400

Mag: 12

Zinc: 1948

Phos: 1402

Bar: 1

Moly: 189

Sil: 4

NA: 14

Boron: 1

Van: 1

Tan: .99

Flash: 390
 
Originally Posted By: Antigen
I have a kymco too. Been using Valvoline All Fleet Premium API CI-4/SL. I however drain the oil every 500 kms. I use this for break in. problems so far. I tried using Mobil Super XHP, It didn't perform well. There was a time that after riding for 1n hour, I opened the drain plug, I can see it smoking a lil bit. I am using motoman's break in period at that time and have been pushing the top speed meter up to 120 kph. Then I plan on switching to RP XPR. It looks very promising. What do you think?

RP XPR:
TBN: 10.8

84.2/14.4

Iron: 2

Lead: 1

Cal: 2400

Mag: 12

Zinc: 1948

Phos: 1402

Bar: 1

Moly: 189

Sil: 4

NA: 14

Boron: 1

Van: 1

Tan: .99

Flash: 390


Valvoline All Fleet Premium Ci-4/SL has the ff:
ZDDP 1270 ppm
Calcium 3964 ppm
Magnesium 14 ppm
Boron 148 ppm
Moly 112 ppm

You can try this, or you can try Delo or Delvac. Delo 400 comes in big containers!
 
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