Prius Transmission Repair

[The Critic]

I was looking around the blog of the independent hybrid shop that I sometimes use, and found this:

http://lusciousgarage.com/blog/comments/video_prius_p3125_p3009_p3120_mg2_repair/

You would never think that a transmission would have electric motors in it!

I have to say props to Luscious Garage for finding a way to repair these transmissions. $2500 for the repair vs. $4-5k for a reman transmission is a huge relief, when the old Gen 1 Prii are already prone to some very expensive component failures.

It is great to see independent shops be ahead of the curve. This is an example of why it pays off to specialize in a particular type of vehicles -- it allows you to devote all of your resources towards a particular area and gaining a competitive edge over anyone else.

Dealerships are forced to repair vehicles in OEM-approved methods only, since they are dealers. But independents are not bound by that, and as you can see in the video, this is where they have their advantage.

I personally think that in the future, this will be the only reason why independent shops will exist. For routine maintenance, the costs are so similar between dealers and indy shops nowadays that it is tough to stay in business for that market alone. As an independent shop, you have to be different/better than the competition in a significant way in order to stay alive.

 

[Nick R]

nevermind.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
...Must....refrain...from making.... comment...about critic wanting a woman mechanic working on HIS prius.....

I could care less who works on my car.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Nick R
...Must....refrain...from making.... comment...about critic wanting a woman mechanic working on HIS prius.....

I could care less who works on my car.

 

[RedCorvette]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I personally think that in the future, this will be the only reason why independent shops will exist. For routine maintenance, the costs are so similar between dealers and indy shops nowadays that it is tough to stay in business for that market alone. As an independent shop, you have to be different/better than the competition in a significant way in order to stay alive.


I think the reason there will be independents is because of honesty. The term stealership is in my opinion really literal, not to do just with high prices, but also ethics. The stealers are pricing routine maintenance so low because they've lost business and need to get people back in, either to build trust for next time, or to inflate the charges this time. They are sharks.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: RedCorvette

I think the reason there will be independents is because of honesty. The term stealership is in my opinion really literal, not to do just with high prices, but also ethics. The stealers are pricing routine maintenance so low because they've lost business and need to get people back in, either to build trust for next time, or to inflate the charges this time. They are sharks.


I agree, although the chain shop independents usually even worse in this regard.

If an auto repair shop (dealer or independent) is heavily reliant on maintenance work, you can bet they will be selling services more frequently than needed in order to stay in business. Either that, or you will have to charge very high prices.

For instance, one of the Toyota dealers I frequent charges $85 for a minor service (synthetic 0W20 oil change, rotate tires, inspection). For that price, I doubt it is sustainable, and they are probably looking hard for upsells.

On the other hand, a larger Lexus dealer charges about $220 for the same service on the CT200h. That price is more believable once you consider the dealership overhead.

 

[RedCorvette]

In the dealer's case, remember that the overhead and some of the labor is anyhow fixed, so these $85 services help make a contribution to those fixed costs. They still get $85 for an hour that the tech may have been idle. This means that when they get warranty work either through recalls or any other fault, they are coming out ahead. And then there's all that work they write for those truly trusting and none the wiser customers. They also run a parts department that ostensibly serves the techs but who also mark up to end consumers eg I needed Toyota inserts for my Lexus wipers and the Toyota dealer wanted $25 for a pair while a Lexus dealer charged $15!

All in all, compared to the independent, being a dealer is highly lucrative in my opinion even with the advertised (but rarely ending up being correct) low price maintenance services. As you say, the independent has to try and compete with those low price maintenance services and make bigger profit elsewhere. The dealer gets warranty work, recall work, and a lot of non maintenance work from none the wiser customers.

I hear you on the chain shop independents. Now I don't know if places like Les Schwab are independent but these national specialists (wheels, brakes etc), can be the worst. Because they specialise in a few areas, they have their sales training down to another level. Every time I go to America's Tire, the customer buys the extended warranty (which often ends up being worse than the tire warranty and standard America's Tire warranty that gets cancelled by the paid one!). I really really like America's Tire, but what most people don't realise is that the great sales approach lulls you into buying that unneccessary insurance. Les Schwab are really clever in how they structure their services to end up charging you a lot. There's a lot of trickery out there!

Also, in my experience, virtually nobody gives you a written estimate until you bring the car in for service. And shops don't seem to want your business. It seems that if you are a discerning customer, you're not the customer they want as there are plenty of easy customers out there.

 

[Burt]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
For routine maintenance, the costs are so similar between dealers and indy shops nowadays that it is tough to stay in business for that market alone. As an independent shop, you have to be different/better than the competition in a significant way in order to stay alive.


You must go to different shops than I do. Since dealers give away new cars at cost, high margins on parts and service are the only way they can make it. Crummy business model, but such as it is.

 

[sciphi]

So the only "efficient" way to own a new car is to DIY the maintenance and hope a big warranty issue doesn't come your way.

 

[JHZR2]

It is good to have options and a base of service. Indys can be good at that if you get a good, experienced one. Some seem to be in business because they had relationship issues with dealers though... But it has been pretty easy to me to find some great indys.

The point about alternative ways to do things is a good one. If cost efficient and proven, why not? The only issue is that a statistically significant number of people need to have been the guinea pigs on the alternate approaches, because at least in theory, the reman part from OE should have had all wear items fixed, no clue if this is the case from the indy. Hopefully so, but on something as complex as a prius trans, who knows?

 

[Chris142]

Reason #123445 why I wont own an at.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: The Critic

For instance, one of the Toyota dealers I frequent charges $85 for a minor service (synthetic 0W20 oil change, rotate tires, inspection). For that price, I doubt it is sustainable, and they are probably looking hard for upsells.

On the other hand, a larger Lexus dealer charges about $220 for the same service on the CT200h. That price is more believable once you consider the dealership overhead.

I guess it depends how long an "inspection" takes, but $85 seems a bit steep for an oil change and tire rotation. If that takes the technician 30 minutes I'd be surprised. $25 for materials, leaves a $120/hr labour rate which seems hard to lose money at... But like others have said, the service department often has to subsidize the rest of the dealership which leaves room for the independent shops.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Reason #123445 why I wont own an at.


Snob! People do stupid things with MTs too.

 

[MrCritical]

I don't know a lot of dealers that can get 5 qts of name brand synthetic and an OEM oil filter for 25 bucks. And lots of customers don't want impact tools used on their $3000+ wheels. Add in bringing the vehicle in, raising and lowering it, and your thirty minutes was up a long time ago.

Then we get to the "inspection" part. The tech has to fill out an inspection report, which the customer gets a copy of. A tech who doesn't inspect the vehicle properly will get caught when things they should have caught on the inspection show up soon after. The first one results in a one time fine. The seoond one is an automatic pay cut. The third one is your job.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

I guess it depends how long an "inspection" takes, but $85 seems a bit steep for an oil change and tire rotation. If that takes the technician 30 minutes I'd be surprised. $25 for materials, leaves a $120/hr labour rate which seems hard to lose money at... But like others have said, the service department often has to subsidize the rest of the dealership which leaves room for the independent shops.


Remember that a flat rate tech is paid 0.8-1.0 hr for a minor service, from my conversations with various techs.

If your shop's labor rate is say, $130/hr (which is common around here), then you are definitely losing money. The shop could have been charging the full $130 for the hour if this had been a suspension job. Instead, they paid a tech 1 hr and probably collected $50 at best if it was the aforementioned $85 minor service special.

And I've found that not all dealers, especially the smaller ones, have enough lower-paid oil change techs doing all of the minor services.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: Burt
...Since dealers give away new cars at cost, high margins on parts and service are the only way they can make it. Crummy business model, but such as it is.


I believe used vehicle sales are their #1 profit makers, #2 being the service dept.

Joel

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Burt
...Since dealers give away new cars at cost, high margins on parts and service are the only way they can make it. Crummy business model, but such as it is.


I believe used vehicle sales are their #1 profit makers, #2 being the service dept.

Joel


Negative. Parts and Service keep the doors open for sales.

 

[RH+G]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: JTK
Originally Posted By: Burt
...Since dealers give away new cars at cost, high margins on parts and service are the only way they can make it. Crummy business model, but such as it is.


I believe used vehicle sales are their #1 profit makers, #2 being the service dept.

Joel


Negative. Parts and Service keep the doors open for sales.


This is always the case. Service keeps comapanies afloat.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Good video. Sounds like DIY on gen I.
I wonder if winding has been improved in gen 2 and 3 and if the access to a stator is still as easy as the gen 1.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Good video. Sounds like DIY on gen I.
I wonder if winding has been improved in gen 2 and 3 and if the access to a stator is still as easy as the gen 1.


I don't think it is DIY level work. The axle and a lot of other stuff still has to come out. I believe Luscious Garage bills out 9 hrs labor for this.